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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
Dont get me wrong, I believe Rodgers is going to get time, and should get full support whilst he is at our helm...
However some of the figures you mention are skewed...you mention a 100 million spend but fail to mention the income from sales of players like Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Sissoko, Luis Garcia, Djibril Cisse and the value of players such as Lucas Leiva, Pepe Reina and the youngsters Sterling, Suso etc who Rafa brought in. Furthermore you fail to mention the impact rafa had on revitilizing our youth academy, of which we are starting to see results now.
Albeit, let's say BR is doing better, let's see at the end of the season where we finish and whether Br will have us playing regular CL football like Rafa did and get us to 2 finals and being the top ranked team in Europe.
I am sorry, I am not a Rafa revisionist or lover or whatever, but to compare BR to Rafa is ridiculous, it's like comparing a World champion to an u17 amateur champion. The level of expertise and experience, footballing and tactical knowledge is incomparable. You might aswell compare Alex Ferguson and PAulo di Canio....There is just no comparison, completely different playing levels of the game.
You say you have higher ambitions for the club than 6th or 7th and a league cup win here and there, yet you are prepared to settle and not only settle, but praise, a manager who is at the moment showing that even 6th or 7th are not guaranteed...
Let's see:
Manager Rafael Benitez
Real Madrid U-19s
Spain U-19 League (1): 1992–93
Spain U-19 Cup (2): 1990–91, 1992–93
Extremadura
Segunda División Promotion (1): 1997–98
Tenerife
Segunda División (1): 2000–01
Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Internazionale
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Individual awards
Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (5): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009
MAnager Brendan Rodgers
Swansea City
Football League Championship Play-Offs: 2010–11
Premier League Manager of the Month: January 2012
Football League Championship Manager of the Month: February 2011
So you see, any comparisons seem ridiculous...because you really are talking about a giant amongst footballing managers on one hand and Mr.Potato head on the other....
However Mr. Brendan Rodgers will have my full support as long as he is at our club and I hope he outdoes Rafa in every sense. BUt let's be realistic.... Firstly I wasn't comparing them directly, if you'd of read it properly, I was comparing Rafa's season. I don't really care what income came back in, its not relevant to that point, if the money fell out of the sky onto his lap, or rich owners gave it to him or he sold his own mother to fund it, the fact is it was spent and wasted, end of story!!!! It's ridiculous to say that a player would be a good Liverpool player scoring goals depending on where the money first came from. What has Rafa's management of RM under 19's 100 years ago got to do with him only having 1 title challenge from 6 with us??? And he had a hand in the Academy, great ... and what???? If anything, you've strengthened my point, how much more experience had Rafa? So he's under performed big time with us. No excuse for such an under performance from (as you've excellently highlighted) a top manager?? I don't really know what point you're trying to make, but I'm gona guess you thought I was directly comparing the two. But If such an inexperienced manager like Rodgers equals Rafa's 09/10 season, this season(what does that say about Rafa? Not a lot) what can he do with his 2nd seasons with a few bob to spend??? We'll push for top 4 next season, that's why I praise Rodgers ... Rafa inherited the European champions, Inter Milan, best squad of players in Italy for 2/3 season and was sacked after 6 months. If you have the best players in Europe, how can you f**k up so much so quick??? Lets see what Rodgers can do over 2 seasons with no Torres, Maxi, Beller's, Kuyt, Carroll etc, all players the other managers had. Secondly the milan squad Rafa inherited were an ageing squad, they had given the best of them and were just no longer up to the task, you'd of seen that by watching them play during his 6 month tenure. Brilliant! 
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,416
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,416 |
I would just like to point out comparing transfer fees is pointless,they have jumped dramatically in the last few years.
"Romance has broke down
This boy is crack'in up"
So not a moderator
Valar Morghulis
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36
Trialist
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Trialist
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36 |
Dont get me wrong, I believe Rodgers is going to get time, and should get full support whilst he is at our helm...
However some of the figures you mention are skewed...you mention a 100 million spend but fail to mention the income from sales of players like Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Sissoko, Luis Garcia, Djibril Cisse and the value of players such as Lucas Leiva, Pepe Reina and the youngsters Sterling, Suso etc who Rafa brought in. Furthermore you fail to mention the impact rafa had on revitilizing our youth academy, of which we are starting to see results now.
Albeit, let's say BR is doing better, let's see at the end of the season where we finish and whether Br will have us playing regular CL football like Rafa did and get us to 2 finals and being the top ranked team in Europe.
I am sorry, I am not a Rafa revisionist or lover or whatever, but to compare BR to Rafa is ridiculous, it's like comparing a World champion to an u17 amateur champion. The level of expertise and experience, footballing and tactical knowledge is incomparable. You might aswell compare Alex Ferguson and PAulo di Canio....There is just no comparison, completely different playing levels of the game.
You say you have higher ambitions for the club than 6th or 7th and a league cup win here and there, yet you are prepared to settle and not only settle, but praise, a manager who is at the moment showing that even 6th or 7th are not guaranteed...
Let's see:
Manager Rafael Benitez
Real Madrid U-19s
Spain U-19 League (1): 1992–93
Spain U-19 Cup (2): 1990–91, 1992–93
Extremadura
Segunda División Promotion (1): 1997–98
Tenerife
Segunda División (1): 2000–01
Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Internazionale
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Individual awards
Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (5): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009
MAnager Brendan Rodgers
Swansea City
Football League Championship Play-Offs: 2010–11
Premier League Manager of the Month: January 2012
Football League Championship Manager of the Month: February 2011
So you see, any comparisons seem ridiculous...because you really are talking about a giant amongst footballing managers on one hand and Mr.Potato head on the other....
However Mr. Brendan Rodgers will have my full support as long as he is at our club and I hope he outdoes Rafa in every sense. BUt let's be realistic.... Firstly I wasn't comparing them directly, if you'd of read it properly, I was comparing Rafa's season. I don't really care what income came back in, its not relevant to that point, if the money fell out of the sky onto his lap, or rich owners gave it to him or he sold his own mother to fund it, the fact is it was spent and wasted, end of story!!!! It's ridiculous to say that a player would be a good Liverpool player scoring goals depending on where the money first came from. What has Rafa's management of RM under 19's 100 years ago got to do with him only having 1 title challenge from 6 with us??? And he had a hand in the Academy, great ... and what???? If anything, you've strengthened my point, how much more experience had Rafa? So he's under performed big time with us. No excuse for such an under performance from (as you've excellently highlighted) a top manager?? I don't really know what point you're trying to make, but I'm gona guess you thought I was directly comparing the two. But If such an inexperienced manager like Rodgers equals Rafa's 09/10 season, this season(what does that say about Rafa? Not a lot) what can he do with his 2nd seasons with a few bob to spend??? We'll push for top 4 next season, that's why I praise Rodgers ... Rafa inherited the European champions, Inter Milan, best squad of players in Italy for 2/3 season and was sacked after 6 months. If you have the best players in Europe, how can you f**k up so much so quick??? Lets see what Rodgers can do over 2 seasons with no Torres, Maxi, Beller's, Kuyt, Carroll etc, all players the other managers had. You'll praise the manager for something that has yet to happen, something that is just a possiblity? Secondly the milan squad Rafa inherited were an ageing squad, they had given the best of them and were just no longer up to the task, you'd of seen that by watching them play during his 6 month tenure. Yes! I'll praise the manager for something that hasn't happened, its called supporting your team, because you see it needs time to work ... you should try it sometime! Instead of fans pi*sing and whining waiting for a bad result so they can whinge some more. And it's not blind faith, it's calculated. Style of football is the best in years, win, lose or draw we try play the right way, few top players bought in the summer added to that system and we'll hammer teams most weeks, but it'll take more than 6 months .... Rafa 09/10 season had Torres, Kuyt, Maxi, Aquilani, Bable, Riera, Mascherano, Benayoun and a 27/28 year old Gerrard Yes ... so I think I'll support Rodgers and try see the bigger picture for the next season and the season after. If Rodgers gets even close to 58 points, compared to what Rafa had to work with, will show how poor Rafa was and how well Rodgers has done. Points in the table don't lie, so we'll wait and see what we finish up with. 28 more points beats Rafa's 58 PS Not that it matters, but Rafa inherited Inter Milan, who were European Champions that year under Mourinho, so if that's not one of the best squad of players, I don't know what it.
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Eliot
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Eliot
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Yes! I'll praise the manager for something that hasn't happened, its called supporting your team, because you see it needs time to work ... you should try it sometime! Instead of fans pi*sing and whining waiting for a bad result so they can whinge some more.
And it's not blind faith, it's calculated. Style of football is the best in years, win, lose or draw we try play the right way, few top players bought in the summer added to that system and we'll hammer teams most weeks, but it'll take more than 6 months ....
Rafa 09/10 season had Torres, Kuyt, Maxi, Aquilani, Bable, Riera, Mascherano, Benayoun and a 27/28 year old Gerrard
Yes ... so I think I'll support Rodgers and try see the bigger picture for the next season and the season after. If Rodgers gets even close to 58 points, compared to what Rafa had to work with, will show how poor Rafa was and how well Rodgers has done. Points in the table don't lie, so we'll wait and see what we finish up with. 28 more points beats Rafa's 58
PS Not that it matters, but Rafa inherited Inter Milan, who were European Champions that year under Mourinho, so if that's not one of the best squad of players, I don't know what it.
How the fvck is it calculated to believe we will be top 4 next season when we are sitting in 8th, the worst start to a league in god knows how long. We may be playing better but clearly not well enough as our position suggests. The transfers BR has brought in so far have failed to suggest to me we have the intent to get back to the top and yes ok thats not entirely down to him but FSG as well, but even so the prices we've payed for Allen, Borini, Sahin loan is just ridiculous - Poor management and god awful transfer is why we are here in the first place, FSG purchasing LFC and the appointment of BR have yet to remedy that. To say we are just waiting for the next bad result so we can 'moan' is just ridiculous, we all want whats best for this club, the moaning comes from year after year of dissappointment.
Last edited by Eliot; 09/01/13 05:25 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36
Trialist
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Trialist
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36 |
You either dont understand or refuse to understand the truth. As Elliot has pointed out, BR Is yet to to achieve anything. Secondly BR has already spent 50 million on Borini, Allen, Sahin, Sturridge and Assaidi. I am trying to remember who Rafa bought with 50 million...
In 04/05 he signed Alonso, Garcia and Cisse for 30 million
In 05/06 he signed Agger and Reina for 12 million
In 06/07 he signed Leiva, Kuyt and Arbeloa for 17 million
In 07/08 he signed Torres, Skrtel and Mascherano for 50 million
Hardly seems like wasted money! He did get some transfers wrong but other than Aquilani we didnt really lose money on them.
Now yes he only had 1 real title challenge but he did have us in 3rd on more than one occasion and as regulars in the CL and THE NUMBER 1 RANKED TEAM IN EUROPE!
Now rake a look at where BR has us after 50 mil, 8th in the league, out of the league cup. Interesting that you could think he could do better than Benitez with the same amount of money. I don't think he could do better.
Also, I am not strengthening your point, I am proving that you have no point whatsoever as you stated that with a bit of money BR could do better than Rafa or Kenny...I say that there is no way in hell, even with 500 million he could do better than Rafa because he lacks the experience and tactical knowledge.
And last but not least, anyone who mentions Rafas time at Inter as a sign he is a bad manager is just showing how clueless they are when it comes to football. To claim he inherited the best squad in Europe is ludicrous, and to disregard the fact that he was not allowed to buy any of his own players is further proof of the nonsense. Only someone completely out of touch with reality could believe such rubbish, or someone naive.
I am sure you are not either of these which leaves me wondering whether posting was an attempt to hide and defend the lack of a valid argument backed up with facts?
I've no interest in it because it's gone off topic of my original post. You're comparing all Rafa's time there with Rodgers 6 months ??? I was comparing Rafa's last season with Rodgers first, and making light that he could in effect do much better considering the difference! And could see a successful next few seasons. If Rodgers can achieve a same points finish but with so much less compared to Rafa's in his first season. Rafa'a 09/10 squad http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=22465.0I urge you to re read the original post again correctly this time or open your own tread on the points you're wanting to make. I suggest calling it "Rafa's 6 seasons v Rodgers 6 months, lets pi*s and moan"
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Eliot
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Eliot
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n3v3rm1nI)
Last edited by Eliot; 09/01/13 05:48 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,416
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,416 |
Bit soon in fairness,Rodgers took over a team in much worse shape and far more better teams above them than Rafa did.
"Romance has broke down
This boy is crack'in up"
So not a moderator
Valar Morghulis
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Eliot
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Eliot
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I'm not going to judge Rodgers by how he is in comparison to Benitez, that simply proves what people want it to prove.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444 |
Bit soon in fairness,Rodgers took over a team in much worse shape and far more better teams above them than Rafa did. brendan took over arguably the weakest and worst squad we have had since the late 1950's when shanks turned up .
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36
Trialist
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Trialist
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36 |
Yes! I'll praise the manager for something that hasn't happened, its called supporting your team, because you see it needs time to work ... you should try it sometime! Instead of fans pi*sing and whining waiting for a bad result so they can whinge some more.
And it's not blind faith, it's calculated. Style of football is the best in years, win, lose or draw we try play the right way, few top players bought in the summer added to that system and we'll hammer teams most weeks, but it'll take more than 6 months ....
Rafa 09/10 season had Torres, Kuyt, Maxi, Aquilani, Bable, Riera, Mascherano, Benayoun and a 27/28 year old Gerrard
Yes ... so I think I'll support Rodgers and try see the bigger picture for the next season and the season after. If Rodgers gets even close to 58 points, compared to what Rafa had to work with, will show how poor Rafa was and how well Rodgers has done. Points in the table don't lie, so we'll wait and see what we finish up with. 28 more points beats Rafa's 58
PS Not that it matters, but Rafa inherited Inter Milan, who were European Champions that year under Mourinho, so if that's not one of the best squad of players, I don't know what it.
How the fvck is it calculated to believe we will be top 4 next season when we are sitting in 8th, the worst start to a league in god knows how long. We may be playing better but clearly not well enough as our position suggests. The transfers BR has brought in so far have failed to suggest to me we have the intent to get back to the top and yes ok thats not entirely down to him but FSG as well, but even so the prices we've payed for Allen, Borini, Sahin loan is just ridiculous - Poor management and god awful transfer is why we are here in the first place, FSG purchasing LFC and the appointment of BR have yet to remedy that. To say we are just waiting for the next bad result so we can 'moan' is just ridiculous, we all want whats best for this club, the moaning comes from year after year of dissappointment. 22 more points beat KK total & 28 more points beats Rafa's! Check out money spent for both and squads they both had. And we'll see come May who's done well or under or over achieved!! Bit of perspective is hugely lacking here!!!
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