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Trialist
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I know fans have been crying out for FSG to splash the cash from day one with Rodgers, but I think it might be a blessing in disguise getting Rodgers to work under a budget for a season.
They threw money at KK and it didn't work. Misplaced trust which came back to haunt them. Whether people want to argue about it being their money or not is a different topic. Point is whoever's money it was, it was wasted!! That's it! Points total proved it! Throwing more money at it isn't necessarily going to fix it ... and lets face it ... they aren't "oil money rich"
(FYI it took Man City 3 seasons, throwing 100m+ at it before they made CL place for the first time ... just in case anyone forgot)
Asking Rodgers to work to a tight budget has put less pressure on him (and lowered our expectations) to be able to work with the squad. Imagine if BR had of spent KK type money and it didn't quite work out as well as hoped?! We'd be jumping all over him, wanting him sacked ... expecting top 4 straight away, another manager within a season and all the player in's & out's that go with it. Embarrassing !!!!
What BR looks like he's going to achieve his season (currently looks on target) is finish in or around the same points total, if not better than Rafa's last season(58) KK one full season(52) and all working with a nothing budget, a very thin, young squad, playing attacking, passing football. Also over hauling the whole philosophy and mentality of the club.
With no Maxi, Beller's, Kuyt, Carroll, Torres for example! KK had no European football to worry about. Which really shows how poor a job Rafa & KK did, or how well Rodgers is doing, or a mix of both.
A season of (probably much needed) cost cutting and trying to get our house in order by FSG, should see us in a much stronger position than ever, to be competitive in the longer term.
I think FSG will back Rodgers now we don't have bit part players on huge contracts (which they inherited a lot of) Andy Carroll being the only possible problem this summer
Over all I think Rodgers deserves much more credit than he's been getting generally, and maybe even FSG deserve some, I suppose we'll see come the summer.
YNWA I disagree completely! Firstly, you are saying Rafa did a bad job but are judging him on 1 season...Secondly Kenny at least won us a trophy, something I don't see BR doing this season. Thirdly, you state Kenny didn't have any European football to worry about, however the stats and history show that teams playing 2 games a week, i.e. European football, have performed better in the league as well. I guess it keeps the whole team/squad/group sharper and match fit. So I think your post is a bit bias. I will give BR time and support but he does not fill me with confidence, and our recent decent run of form must not be over estimated as we had a rather easy fixture list. Let's see what we do in the coming weeks. The only point that I agree with in your post is basically that splashing more money at the problem would not have been the best solution...although it would have been a much needed and appreciated attempt. 6 seasons in, 7th place on 58 point ... Yes, that's a bad job and not good enough even if you did win a European Cup 6 seasons before. £100m+ spent, 8th place on 52 points ... Yes, that's a bad job and not good enough even if you are a club legend and won a League Cup on penalties to a Championship side. 1 title challenge from 6 seasons under Rafa, with the squad & players we had??? Not even close any of the other seasons, done by Christmas. A 5th & 7th place thrown in as well. Rafa gave me one of the best nights of my life, but I don't have to over state his tenure with us to appreciate that. We'll agree to disagree. I have higher hopes and standards for the club than the odd League Cup and a title challenge every 6 seasons sandwiched between finishing 5th & 7th. And the only point I was making was, if BR can surpass KK & Rafa, points-wise, with the current squad of players and after how much we've fallen the past few seasons, and with the restraints put on him this season etc ... what will he be able to do when he has 3/4 seasons under his belt and gets some money?? That's all.
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Aug 2012
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Rafa gave me one of the best nights of my life,
Steady on I loved rafa but I wouldn't go that far, besides i am hapily married
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36
Trialist
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36 |
Rafa gave me one of the best nights of my life,
Steady on I loved rafa but I wouldn't go that far, besides i am hapily married Haha! I should have thought more about the wording of that lol
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 791
Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 791 |
From transferleague.co.uk
IN
Fabio Borini - 10,000,000
Joe Allen - 15,000,000
Daniel Sturridge - 12,000,000
Oussama Assaidi - 2,300,000
Samed Yesil - 1,000,000
(I would assume the wages are reasonable say 2-3 mill on the first 3)
OUT (main players)
Dirk Kuyt - 1,000,000
Fabiano Aurelio
Maxi Rodríguez
Alberto Aquilani - 3,000,000
Craig Bellamy
Charlie Adam - 4,000,000
Joe Cole
(I assume mainly incredible wages each costing 3/4 mill a season)
Net Total Transfer £32,300,000
Lets say the new players wages cost about 9 million a season and the outgoing players cost 25 million.
Years cost = 32.3 + 9 - 25 = £16.3 million
Not really sure what my point was going to be or how this contributes to the topic, but i took time to write this so i thought i'd post it. :-P
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Trialist
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Not really sure what my point was going to be or how this contributes to the topic, but i took time to write this so i thought i'd post it. :-P Ha! Good stuff, seems we've had a season of managing our costs much better. But with no worse out come on the pitch, people don't seem to see this. We're still on (points wise) to equal Rafa's 58 points of 3 seasons ago, but with half the wage bill, and in a style and philosophy far superior .... We'll be in the best shape we've ever been in over the last 3 seasons. Ready to really have a go for top 4 next season with a few top signings ....
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36
Trialist
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36 |
I know fans have been crying out for FSG to splash the cash from day one with Rodgers, but I think it might be a blessing in disguise getting Rodgers to work under a budget for a season.
They threw money at KK and it didn't work. Misplaced trust which came back to haunt them. Whether people want to argue about it being their money or not is a different topic. Point is whoever's money it was, it was wasted!! That's it! Points total proved it! Throwing more money at it isn't necessarily going to fix it ... and lets face it ... they aren't "oil money rich"
(FYI it took Man City 3 seasons, throwing 100m+ at it before they made CL place for the first time ... just in case anyone forgot)
Asking Rodgers to work to a tight budget has put less pressure on him (and lowered our expectations) to be able to work with the squad. Imagine if BR had of spent KK type money and it didn't quite work out as well as hoped?! We'd be jumping all over him, wanting him sacked ... expecting top 4 straight away, another manager within a season and all the player in's & out's that go with it. Embarrassing !!!!
What BR looks like he's going to achieve his season (currently looks on target) is finish in or around the same points total, if not better than Rafa's last season(58) KK one full season(52) and all working with a nothing budget, a very thin, young squad, playing attacking, passing football. Also over hauling the whole philosophy and mentality of the club.
With no Maxi, Beller's, Kuyt, Carroll, Torres for example! KK had no European football to worry about. Which really shows how poor a job Rafa & KK did, or how well Rodgers is doing, or a mix of both.
A season of (probably much needed) cost cutting and trying to get our house in order by FSG, should see us in a much stronger position than ever, to be competitive in the longer term.
I think FSG will back Rodgers now we don't have bit part players on huge contracts (which they inherited a lot of) Andy Carroll being the only possible problem this summer
Over all I think Rodgers deserves much more credit than he's been getting generally, and maybe even FSG deserve some, I suppose we'll see come the summer.
YNWA I disagree completely! Firstly, you are saying Rafa did a bad job but are judging him on 1 season...Secondly Kenny at least won us a trophy, something I don't see BR doing this season. Thirdly, you state Kenny didn't have any European football to worry about, however the stats and history show that teams playing 2 games a week, i.e. European football, have performed better in the league as well. I guess it keeps the whole team/squad/group sharper and match fit. So I think your post is a bit bias. I will give BR time and support but he does not fill me with confidence, and our recent decent run of form must not be over estimated as we had a rather easy fixture list. Let's see what we do in the coming weeks. The only point that I agree with in your post is basically that splashing more money at the problem would not have been the best solution...although it would have been a much needed and appreciated attempt. 6 seasons in, 7th place on 58 point ... Yes, that's a bad job and not good enough even if you did win a European Cup 6 seasons before. £100m+ spent, 8th place on 52 points ... Yes, that's a bad job and not good enough even if you are a club legend and won a League Cup on penalties to a Championship side. 1 title challenge from 6 seasons under Rafa, with the squad & players we had??? Not even close any of the other seasons, done by Christmas. A 5th & 7th place thrown in as well. Rafa gave me one of the best nights of my life, but I don't have to over state his tenure with us to appreciate that. We'll agree to disagree. I have higher hopes and standards for the club than the odd League Cup and a title challenge every 6 seasons sandwiched between finishing 5th & 7th. And the only point I was making was, if BR can surpass KK & Rafa, points-wise, with the current squad of players and after how much we've fallen the past few seasons, and with the restraints put on him this season etc ... what will he be able to do when he has 3/4 seasons under his belt and gets some money?? That's all. You're new here aren't you? Let me tell you... this board is overrun with Rafa revisionists that think he's the perennial messiah for any situation. It gets boring after a while... but that's what we've got! Ha1 Thanks for the heads up, kinda guessed that from my brief time on here! "But Rodgers is doing a decent job considering squad etc, compared to Rafa" ..... (fingers in ears) RAFA RAFA RAFA RAFA RAFA lol :P
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
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Dont get me wrong, I believe Rodgers is going to get time, and should get full support whilst he is at our helm...
However some of the figures you mention are skewed...you mention a 100 million spend but fail to mention the income from sales of players like Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Sissoko, Luis Garcia, Djibril Cisse and the value of players such as Lucas Leiva, Pepe Reina and the youngsters Sterling, Suso etc who Rafa brought in. Furthermore you fail to mention the impact rafa had on revitilizing our youth academy, of which we are starting to see results now.
Albeit, let's say BR is doing better, let's see at the end of the season where we finish and whether Br will have us playing regular CL football like Rafa did and get us to 2 finals and being the top ranked team in Europe.
I am sorry, I am not a Rafa revisionist or lover or whatever, but to compare BR to Rafa is ridiculous, it's like comparing a World champion to an u17 amateur champion. The level of expertise and experience, footballing and tactical knowledge is incomparable. You might aswell compare Alex Ferguson and PAulo di Canio....There is just no comparison, completely different playing levels of the game.
You say you have higher ambitions for the club than 6th or 7th and a league cup win here and there, yet you are prepared to settle and not only settle, but praise, a manager who is at the moment showing that even 6th or 7th are not guaranteed...
Let's see:
Manager Rafael Benitez
Real Madrid U-19s
Spain U-19 League (1): 1992–93
Spain U-19 Cup (2): 1990–91, 1992–93
Extremadura
Segunda División Promotion (1): 1997–98
Tenerife
Segunda División (1): 2000–01
Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Internazionale
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Individual awards
Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (5): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009
MAnager Brendan Rodgers
Swansea City
Football League Championship Play-Offs: 2010–11
Premier League Manager of the Month: January 2012
Football League Championship Manager of the Month: February 2011
So you see, any comparisons seem ridiculous...because you really are talking about a giant amongst footballing managers on one hand and Mr.Potato head on the other....
However Mr. Brendan Rodgers will have my full support as long as he is at our club and I hope he outdoes Rafa in every sense. BUt let's be realistic....
Sign Reus
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36
Trialist
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Trialist
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 36 |
Dont get me wrong, I believe Rodgers is going to get time, and should get full support whilst he is at our helm...
However some of the figures you mention are skewed...you mention a 100 million spend but fail to mention the income from sales of players like Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Sissoko, Luis Garcia, Djibril Cisse and the value of players such as Lucas Leiva, Pepe Reina and the youngsters Sterling, Suso etc who Rafa brought in. Furthermore you fail to mention the impact rafa had on revitilizing our youth academy, of which we are starting to see results now.
Albeit, let's say BR is doing better, let's see at the end of the season where we finish and whether Br will have us playing regular CL football like Rafa did and get us to 2 finals and being the top ranked team in Europe.
I am sorry, I am not a Rafa revisionist or lover or whatever, but to compare BR to Rafa is ridiculous, it's like comparing a World champion to an u17 amateur champion. The level of expertise and experience, footballing and tactical knowledge is incomparable. You might aswell compare Alex Ferguson and PAulo di Canio....There is just no comparison, completely different playing levels of the game.
You say you have higher ambitions for the club than 6th or 7th and a league cup win here and there, yet you are prepared to settle and not only settle, but praise, a manager who is at the moment showing that even 6th or 7th are not guaranteed...
Let's see:
Manager Rafael Benitez
Real Madrid U-19s
Spain U-19 League (1): 1992–93
Spain U-19 Cup (2): 1990–91, 1992–93
Extremadura
Segunda División Promotion (1): 1997–98
Tenerife
Segunda División (1): 2000–01
Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Internazionale
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Individual awards
Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (5): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009
MAnager Brendan Rodgers
Swansea City
Football League Championship Play-Offs: 2010–11
Premier League Manager of the Month: January 2012
Football League Championship Manager of the Month: February 2011
So you see, any comparisons seem ridiculous...because you really are talking about a giant amongst footballing managers on one hand and Mr.Potato head on the other....
However Mr. Brendan Rodgers will have my full support as long as he is at our club and I hope he outdoes Rafa in every sense. BUt let's be realistic.... Firstly I wasn't comparing them directly, if you'd of read it properly, I was comparing Rafa's season. I don't really care what income came back in, its not relevant to that point, if the money fell out of the sky onto his lap, or rich owners gave it to him or he sold his own mother to fund it, the fact is it was spent and wasted, end of story!!!! It's ridiculous to say that a player would be a good Liverpool player scoring goals depending on where the money first came from. What has Rafa's management of RM under 19's 100 years ago got to do with him only having 1 title challenge from 6 with us??? And he had a hand in the Academy, great ... and what???? If anything, you've strengthened my point, how much more experience had Rafa? So he's under performed big time with us. No excuse for such an under performance from (as you've excellently highlighted) a top manager?? I don't really know what point you're trying to make, but I'm gona guess you thought I was directly comparing the two. But If such an inexperienced manager like Rodgers equals Rafa's 09/10 season, this season(what does that say about Rafa? Not a lot) what can he do with his 2nd seasons with a few bob to spend??? We'll push for top 4 next season, that's why I praise Rodgers ... Rafa inherited the European champions, Inter Milan, best squad of players in Italy for 2/3 season and was sacked after 6 months. If you have the best players in Europe, how can you f**k up so much so quick??? Lets see what Rodgers can do over 2 seasons with no Torres, Maxi, Beller's, Kuyt, Carroll etc, all players the other managers had.
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Eliot
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Eliot
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Dont get me wrong, I believe Rodgers is going to get time, and should get full support whilst he is at our helm...
However some of the figures you mention are skewed...you mention a 100 million spend but fail to mention the income from sales of players like Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Sissoko, Luis Garcia, Djibril Cisse and the value of players such as Lucas Leiva, Pepe Reina and the youngsters Sterling, Suso etc who Rafa brought in. Furthermore you fail to mention the impact rafa had on revitilizing our youth academy, of which we are starting to see results now.
Albeit, let's say BR is doing better, let's see at the end of the season where we finish and whether Br will have us playing regular CL football like Rafa did and get us to 2 finals and being the top ranked team in Europe.
I am sorry, I am not a Rafa revisionist or lover or whatever, but to compare BR to Rafa is ridiculous, it's like comparing a World champion to an u17 amateur champion. The level of expertise and experience, footballing and tactical knowledge is incomparable. You might aswell compare Alex Ferguson and PAulo di Canio....There is just no comparison, completely different playing levels of the game.
You say you have higher ambitions for the club than 6th or 7th and a league cup win here and there, yet you are prepared to settle and not only settle, but praise, a manager who is at the moment showing that even 6th or 7th are not guaranteed...
Let's see:
Manager Rafael Benitez
Real Madrid U-19s
Spain U-19 League (1): 1992–93
Spain U-19 Cup (2): 1990–91, 1992–93
Extremadura
Segunda División Promotion (1): 1997–98
Tenerife
Segunda División (1): 2000–01
Valencia
La Liga (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2003–04
Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Internazionale
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2010
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2010
Individual awards
Don Balón Award (1): 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year (2): 2003–04, 2004–05
Premier League Manager of the Month (5): November 2005, December 2005, January 2007, October 2008, March 2009
MAnager Brendan Rodgers
Swansea City
Football League Championship Play-Offs: 2010–11
Premier League Manager of the Month: January 2012
Football League Championship Manager of the Month: February 2011
So you see, any comparisons seem ridiculous...because you really are talking about a giant amongst footballing managers on one hand and Mr.Potato head on the other....
However Mr. Brendan Rodgers will have my full support as long as he is at our club and I hope he outdoes Rafa in every sense. BUt let's be realistic.... Firstly I wasn't comparing them directly, if you'd of read it properly, I was comparing Rafa's season. I don't really care what income came back in, its not relevant to that point, if the money fell out of the sky onto his lap, or rich owners gave it to him or he sold his own mother to fund it, the fact is it was spent and wasted, end of story!!!! It's ridiculous to say that a player would be a good Liverpool player scoring goals depending on where the money first came from. What has Rafa's management of RM under 19's 100 years ago got to do with him only having 1 title challenge from 6 with us??? And he had a hand in the Academy, great ... and what???? If anything, you've strengthened my point, how much more experience had Rafa? So he's under performed big time with us. No excuse for such an under performance from (as you've excellently highlighted) a top manager?? I don't really know what point you're trying to make, but I'm gona guess you thought I was directly comparing the two. But If such an inexperienced manager like Rodgers equals Rafa's 09/10 season, this season(what does that say about Rafa? Not a lot) what can he do with his 2nd seasons with a few bob to spend??? We'll push for top 4 next season, that's why I praise Rodgers ... Rafa inherited the European champions, Inter Milan, best squad of players in Italy for 2/3 season and was sacked after 6 months. If you have the best players in Europe, how can you f**k up so much so quick??? Lets see what Rodgers can do over 2 seasons with no Torres, Maxi, Beller's, Kuyt, Carroll etc, all players the other managers had. You'll praise the manager for something that has yet to happen, something that is just a possiblity? Secondly the milan squad Rafa inherited were an ageing squad, they had given the best of them and were just no longer up to the task, you'd of seen that by watching them play during his 6 month tenure.
Last edited by Eliot; 09/01/13 04:29 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
You either dont understand or refuse to understand the truth. As Elliot has pointed out, BR Is yet to to achieve anything. Secondly BR has already spent 50 million on Borini, Allen, Sahin, Sturridge and Assaidi. I am trying to remember who Rafa bought with 50 million...
In 04/05 he signed Alonso, Garcia and Cisse for 30 million
In 05/06 he signed Agger and Reina for 12 million
In 06/07 he signed Leiva, Kuyt and Arbeloa for 17 million
In 07/08 he signed Torres, Skrtel and Mascherano for 50 million
Hardly seems like wasted money! He did get some transfers wrong but other than Aquilani we didnt really lose money on them.
Now yes he only had 1 real title challenge but he did have us in 3rd on more than one occasion and as regulars in the CL and THE NUMBER 1 RANKED TEAM IN EUROPE!
Now rake a look at where BR has us after 50 mil, 8th in the league, out of the league cup. Interesting that you could think he could do better than Benitez with the same amount of money. I don't think he could do better.
Also, I am not strengthening your point, I am proving that you have no point whatsoever as you stated that with a bit of money BR could do better than Rafa or Kenny...I say that there is no way in hell, even with 500 million he could do better than Rafa because he lacks the experience and tactical knowledge.
And last but not least, anyone who mentions Rafas time at Inter as a sign he is a bad manager is just showing how clueless they are when it comes to football. To claim he inherited the best squad in Europe is ludicrous, and to disregard the fact that he was not allowed to buy any of his own players is further proof of the nonsense. Only someone completely out of touch with reality could believe such rubbish, or someone naive.
I am sure you are not either of these which leaves me wondering whether posting was an attempt to hide and defend the lack of a valid argument backed up with facts?
Sign Reus
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