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Originally Posted By: CarheeX
Originally Posted By: cp1972
Originally Posted By: CarheeX
If AVB is out of the running. I pray it was HIS decision to pull out and not FSG's decision. Whilst I'm not 100% convinced by AVB i'd be very worried if the people in charge of our club rated RM ahead of him. That wouldn't be very promising for the future at all.


to be honest I am not really in love with any of the candidates, Rafa,AVB and RM all have serious flaws which I think all of us would need convincing about. Personally I think RM and AVB will turn out to be great managers over the next 5yrs, the question is are they ready to take a team from 8th with some decent players to 4th or above with what appears to be a modest spend - FSG surely would have to sack the manager if the 4th place target was not reached and the merry go round would start again. Hence my lean towards Dalglish completing his 2/3yr contract.- - an option now eradicated

Rafa is the hardest one to fathom, would we get the ambitious, focused and tactial genius Rafa or the paranoid, emotional and warring Rafa who finished his last 18mths.

Never has a decision been so vital for the club (at playing level)



Er, why would 4th place have to be the target and why would the new man get sacked if it wasn't acieved??


I think that FSG have muddied this issue with the sacking of Dalglish. I agree that progress should be the benchmark rather than a specific league position - but Dalglish being sacked puts the lie to that because although we didn't progress in the league we most certainly progressed in the cups, and coming from a position where we did neither for two seasons would suggest that Dalglish should have been given another season to reach top 4.

Which is why I'm leaning towards the idea that FSG did not believe Dalglish was the right man to work in their proposed new system (nor was Commolli), and that his results were therefore irrelevant. It implies that the standard by which the next manager is judged will not be the same as the standard by which Dalglish or even Benitez or Houllier were judged. So I agree that 4th isn't necessarily the target, and a failure to reach it would not necessarily be end of the new manager.

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"The media" (them again!) reckon he went there with a back-me-or-sack-me ultimatum. That kind of arrogance wouldn't surprise me one little bit, although he was hardly in a position to call their bluff!

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Originally Posted By: CarheeX
Originally Posted By: cp1972
Originally Posted By: CarheeX
If AVB is out of the running. I pray it was HIS decision to pull out and not FSG's decision. Whilst I'm not 100% convinced by AVB i'd be very worried if the people in charge of our club rated RM ahead of him. That wouldn't be very promising for the future at all.


to be honest I am not really in love with any of the candidates, Rafa,AVB and RM all have serious flaws which I think all of us would need convincing about. Personally I think RM and AVB will turn out to be great managers over the next 5yrs, the question is are they ready to take a team from 8th with some decent players to 4th or above with what appears to be a modest spend - FSG surely would have to sack the manager if the 4th place target was not reached and the merry go round would start again. Hence my lean towards Dalglish completing his 2/3yr contract.- - an option now eradicated

Rafa is the hardest one to fathom, would we get the ambitious, focused and tactial genius Rafa or the paranoid, emotional and warring Rafa who finished his last 18mths.

Never has a decision been so vital for the club (at playing level)



Er, why would 4th place have to be the target and why would the new man get sacked if it wasn't acieved??


because we sacked the Kenny manager for exactly that reason, why would we sack Kenny then reduce expectations on the next manager? Kenny ticked all the boxes in terms of playing style etc but as you have said on many occasions his target was always 4th place or above - why are you changing your tune?

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The new manager won't have 115mil to spend though so a new manager should easily be given 2 seasons with maybe a 25mil budget plus sales to work with in each season so that they have time to bring in their own players and implement their own playing style.

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Originally Posted By: Maxi88
The new manager won't have 115mil to spend though so a new manager should easily be given 2 seasons with maybe a 25mil budget plus sales to work with in each season so that they have time to bring in their own players and implement their own playing style.


Kenny also had to sell to spend. He may have spent 115mil but in fact he re-couped 85mil of that so RM would get a similar amount 25-30mil net spend, a rather modest amount for a team which has ambitions of top 4.

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The fact remains that he spent 115 million. the new manager won't be able to sell someone like a disgruntled Torres for 50million to boost their coffers.

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Originally Posted By: Maxi88
The fact remains that he spent 115 million. the new manager won't be able to sell someone like a disgruntled Torres for 50million to boost their coffers.


i didnt say the money was spent well I said that the numbers will be about the same. Kenny brought in 8 new players for 115mill - averaging 14.3 mil a player, at a loss of 14 players. A new manager will probably need to move on a few and bring in a few so 30mil + sales of about 10mil = to 40mil spend and 13.3mil average spend per player. Not too dissimilar, the idea being that a new manager can get more out of what we already have - debate there alone. I would be amazed if our net spend exceeds 40mil this summer - yet lets be honest we need alot more!

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Originally Posted By: cp1972
Originally Posted By: Maxi88
The fact remains that he spent 115 million. the new manager won't be able to sell someone like a disgruntled Torres for 50million to boost their coffers.


i didnt say the money was spent well I said that the numbers will be about the same. Kenny brought in 8 new players for 115mill - averaging 14.3 mil a player, at a loss of 14 players. A new manager will probably need to move on a few and bring in a few so 30mil + sales of about 10mil = to 40mil spend and 13.3mil average spend per player. Not too dissimilar, the idea being that a new manager can get more out of what we already have - debate there alone. I would be amazed if our net spend exceeds 40mil this summer - yet lets be honest we need alot more!
kenny wasnt sacked because we didnt finish 4th. he was sacked beause we finished MILES off 4th. i strongly believe if we were to finish a few points off. kenny would still be in the job. 4th was the yard stick and kenny didnt even reach its shadow let alone reach the stick

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Theres no comparison between the 2 though. Kenny spent almost 80 million on 3 players who haven't been very productive in terms of goals or assists. Now they might come good and I hope they will but last year they didn't and it was a team built by Kenny. A new manager will need to be able to build his own team and would presumably need 2 transfer budgets to achieve something approaching a team in his own mould with the funds he will have.

We would need more funds than are available but they won't be there this year and that's why a new manager will need at least 2 seasons before they can truly be judged

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Originally Posted By: Maxi88
Theres no comparison between the 2 though. Kenny spent almost 80 million on 3 players who haven't been very productive in terms of goals or assists. Now they might come good and I hope they will but last year they didn't and it was a team built by Kenny. A new manager will need to be able to build his own team and would presumably need 2 transfer budgets to achieve something approaching a team in his own mould with the funds he will have.

We would need more funds than are available but they won't be there this year and that's why a new manager will need at least 2 seasons before they can truly be judged


my argument is not about whther the money was spent well or not, quite clearly alot have failed. The amount available to any new manager is about the same. We do not need to get rid of 14 players - deadwood. We have far more in place because of Kenny than when Kenny took over so alot of the donkey work has been done.

I am not disputing whether he did a good or bad job. FSG felt he should have got 4th place or above why would they change the target now? it does not make any sense. They will expect any manager to mould the existing squad + a few additions into a top 4 side through better tactics/coaching/management etc, otherwise it was pointless replacing Kenny.

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