KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Racism, discrimination and the F.A. and Sky

thanks for explaining that racism can occur in more than a white to black capacity. how did ferdinand 'most of it'? descrbie his actions

Last refuge of a scoundrel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Dizaei

what's your point stanley? are you reinforcing the point that racism can exist in many forms and not just in the case white towards black? is it that some people can lie or use the race card? is that your point? cos i don't really understand what your trying to prove other than that.

your point is entirely obvious and i haven't seen anyone contend it here. yes racism can exist in many forms. everyone knows that. people are capable of lying in race cases. everyone knows that too.

That's one example. In one extremely narrow and unique situation. How can one possibly claim that white males are some sort of oppressed group? How many times have you been pulled over by the cops simply because of your race? Do you know how it feels to walk into a shop with a white woman and have people staring daggers? Or how it feels to have everyone at your university look at you and think "Oh, he must be an affirmative action admission. Or maybe he's good at basketball."

My point is people do use the race card in life generally. Its endemic and causing real frictions in society. We do have to fight racism but I feel we not got things right. We are fragmented into victim groups and actually using false accusations of racism to advance themselves or destroy other people. This is leading to a new form of racism one sanctioned by the establishment where people are wary of one another along racial lines. Football is not imune to this and I cam see many more accusations of racism which are nothing more than one person trying to seek advantage or get at another person. It is all totally out of perspective and destroying common law princuples which have stood for centuries. Did you know the Suarez / Evra incident was spawned from a sexist comment Evra made about a relative of Suarez ? So is football not against sexism (every bit as discriminatory as racism) if not why not?

stanley i think you have shown your argument to be flimsy and will pull any random example out of wikipedia which very little to do with the point, in order to just win an argument.

Ever been white parents trying to adopt a black child? I take on board your points but its not all one way. And the race card is used extenstivly it is not narrow or unique. And do know because I used to work in the US its used massively in america more than the UK which is bad enough. And its really only the UK and America which acts like this not in europe, asia or latrin america.

look stanley i agree that evra's comments were sexist. beyond that they were defamatory. they're the kind of comments that got materazzi a 2game ban (and a headbutt from zidane) after making them. and in fairness. if materazzi has said that about my family, i'd still be dancing on the pr!ck's head. so in short, no evra hasn't been dealt justice in the form of a ban. and he should have been.

but you are using the ferdinand - terry case to back your point which i don't think you have done very well. the world and it's dog knows what terry said to ferdinand. but you accuse ferdinand, who didn't even report it (a member of the public did), of playing the race card when all he did was answer police questions in a case that he didn't even call. i think when you include things like this it makes your stronger arguments look flimsy. and that's unfortunate.

Ok I take your point about him not reporting it. But who did was it a) a Chelsea fan b) a QPR fan? was the motivate out of abhorrent disgust of the racism or to get at John Terry because they don't like him and / or he plays for Chelsea. And lets look at the punishment the maximum the law can punish is a £2,500 fine but Terry's life will be ruined as England Captain or a future managerial career. Now I know you will say so what because we all hate him (and so do I btw) but ask yourself this as a citizen is that proportionate? I say no and the danger here we are segregating ourselves along racial lines. Yes people will not say out loud but they will avoid contact in future in the workplace and socially for fear of being accused. And sort of society or fairness is that knowing people are apprehensive of engaging with you.

I for one have no sympathy for Terry whatsoever. Anyone who uses language like that (regardless of who reports it and what their motives are for doing so - that is not the issue at all) is not fit to lead a multi-ethnic country like England in any capacity. The fact of the matter is that Terry used unacceptable language which was there for all to see. Are you really bothered that Terry might not be England's manager now? I for one would be embarrassed if he were to represent my country at such a high level. That kind of language has no place in our society and is completely un-called for and unwarranted.