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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
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TonyBarretTimes Tony Barrett
Liverpool & Manchester should have a coming together 1916 style with Warrington as no man's land! :-) #altogethernow
i think tony is right something need to be done but i suppsoe it never will .
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
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what's more important? the reputation of LFC in the eyes of others or standing up for truth and justice even if it leaves us in a minority of one?
I would say the latter, but the problem in this case is that we the wider public haven't seen or heard the evidence and therefore aren't able to make a call based on fact. Everything discussed in the press, online, in the pub etc. is all based on assumptions or speculation. As a result it's difficult for us to say whether the club has taken the correct stance.
Some would argue that they must have have a strong point otherwise they wouldn't be so firm in their stance. Others would argue that the panel must have strong evidence in order to have reached their verdict.
The fact is we just don't know. And it's obvious that some of the people involved or getting involved are doing so just to make themselves be seen to be doing the right thing.
I agree that in the short term, this is terrible for LFC. However, I am relying on the evidence to show that the club is justified in its stance. Otherwise we'll only have ourselves to blame for the fallout.
I must say I'm not very confident. I think we could've been much more sophisticated in our handling of the situation. The statement after the verdict could have been much better written.
I also feel that we still have the opportunity to take the moral high ground by accepting the ban and apologising to Patrice Evra whilst maitaining that we believe Luis Suarez is innocent in the strongest possible terms. This may be in the long term interests of the player, the club and the game as a whole in this country.
Last edited by TheMightyLFC; 24/12/11 07:13 PM.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 652 |
If you look at how Chelsea are handling a situation that is arguably far more ugly in its implications, you start to see where LFC is going astray.
By admitting that he did something wrong the player set himself up completely. The only way forward from that point onwards was to pre-empt the ban through the adoption of a more conciliatory position (by the club) coupled with an apology where it was made clear that offence was never intended in the manner it was caused. This would have short circuited all of this nonsense that has engulfed us and avoided us being in a position where we are seemingly supportive of improper conduct. That a person of such dubious morality as Ferguson can sit in our judgement is a very unfortunate state of affairs. It’s what I’d have expected with Keegan in charge not Dalglish.
The criticism of the FA, by Dalglish, before the judgement, probably caused the ban to be longer than it would have been.
The way things are going at present we’re going to end up with a player continually vilified and a club under media siege. The management of the whole situation has been short sighted.
The fact is that Faz is right to recognise the extent to which the reputation of the club is both important and threatened.
I agree that Suarez and the club are being mistreated and that the punishment is disproportionate but we can’t have the manager taking the issue on as he has done. It’s wholly inappropriate and counter productive. The owners need to get a grip on the club and KD should be considering his position carefully, in all senses, because although he can be forgiven for his misadventures in the transfer market, allowing a cloud to settle on the club like this shows poor judgement that could have lasting consequences. I thought Dalglish was wiser than this. If we don’t get forth – and we probably won’t – we’ll be seeing some changes at the top , for sure.
In all of the hype surrounding our plight Terry will probably get off with a shorter ban or no ban at all – and his actions appeared far more unpleasant. There’s a nasty lesson in there for us.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444 |
If you look at how Chelsea are handling a situation that is arguably far more ugly in its implications, you start to see where LFC is going astray.
By admitting that he did something wrong the player set himself up completely. The only way forward from that point onwards was to pre-empt the ban through the adoption of a more conciliatory position (by the club) coupled with an apology where it was made clear that offence was never intended in the manner it was caused. This would have short circuited all of this nonsense that has engulfed us and avoided us being in a position where we are seemingly supportive of improper conduct. That a person of such dubious morality as Ferguson can sit in our judgement is a very unfortunate state of affairs. It’s what I’d have expected with Keegan in charge not Dalglish.
The criticism of the FA, by Dalglish, before the judgement, probably caused the ban to be longer than it would have been.
The way things are going at present we’re going to end up with a player continually vilified and a club under media siege. The management of the whole situation has been short sighted.
The fact is that Faz is right to recognise the extent to which the reputation of the club is both important and threatened.
I agree that Suarez and the club are being mistreated and that the punishment is disproportionate but we can’t have the manager taking the issue on as he has done. It’s wholly inappropriate and counter productive. The owners need to get a grip on the club and KD should be considering his position carefully, in all senses, because although he can be forgiven for his misadventures in the transfer market, allowing a cloud to settle on the club like this shows poor judgement that could have lasting consequences. I thought Dalglish was wiser than this. If we don’t get forth – and we probably won’t – we’ll be seeing some changes at the top , for sure.
In all of the hype surrounding our plight Terry will probably get off with a shorter ban or no ban at all – and his actions appeared far more unpleasant. There’s a nasty lesson in there for us.
exactly right and i think we all in the LFC Family need to be very careful and take stock of events .
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 652
Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Aug 2009
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Mighty LFC, I agree with most/all of what you wrote - but I was busy posting my own thoughts whilst you posted yours.
Like you, I'm not ever so confident that the truth, when it emerges, will be so unambiguously favouarble. However, the tardiness of the FA, in presenting the case is suspicious, and I hope it means they are having their won doubts.
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
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If you look at how Chelsea are handling a situation that is arguably far more ugly in its implications, you start to see where LFC is going astray.
By admitting that he did something wrong the player set himself up completely. The only way forward from that point onwards was to pre-empt the ban through the adoption of a more conciliatory position (by the club) coupled with an apology where it was made clear that offence was never intended in the manner it was caused. This would have short circuited all of this nonsense that has engulfed us and avoided us being in a position where we are seemingly supportive of improper conduct. That a person of such dubious morality as Ferguson can sit in our judgement is a very unfortunate state of affairs. It’s what I’d have expected with Keegan in charge not Dalglish.
The criticism of the FA, by Dalglish, before the judgement, probably caused the ban to be longer than it would have been.
The way things are going at present we’re going to end up with a player continually vilified and a club under media siege. The management of the whole situation has been short sighted.
The fact is that Faz is right to recognise the extent to which the reputation of the club is both important and threatened.
I agree that Suarez and the club are being mistreated and that the punishment is disproportionate but we can’t have the manager taking the issue on as he has done. It’s wholly inappropriate and counter productive. The owners need to get a grip on the club and KD should be considering his position carefully, in all senses, because although he can be forgiven for his misadventures in the transfer market, allowing a cloud to settle on the club like this shows poor judgement that could have lasting consequences. I thought Dalglish was wiser than this. If we don’t get forth – and we probably won’t – we’ll be seeing some changes at the top , for sure.
In all of the hype surrounding our plight Terry will probably get off with a shorter ban or no ban at all – and his actions appeared far more unpleasant. There’s a nasty lesson in there for us. He didn't admit doing anything wrong. He just told what it was he said - in his eyes - and in the eyes of people from where he comes from - there's nothing at all wrong with what he said. He comes from a different culture, and the FA should have taken that into consideration, instead of brandishing their own form of racism upon him by punishing him for using his native terms. Say one of us was a footballer and went to play in a country in say Iran or somewhere like that, and we said "mate" to an opponent, and they took that as some sort of homosexual advance or something, which they had no tolerance for, and banned you, without taking into consideration what the word "mate" means where you come from - how would you feel about that?
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,746
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
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Absolutely spot on BarLennon. The culture of this country is far more different to even that in Holland where he played before. The guy is a born winner and even on Wednesday he was playing with a smile on his face. And as his English is not good by all accounts how can he be expected to know the law of the land in a country where we have more different races, colours and creeds living together than most other places.
Evra took advantage of his knowledge of language and calling Suarez something that he neither heard or understood was a racially abusive action in itself. And now Ferguson is piping up. He will end his bitter reign as the man who played the race card rather than all the things he has achieved. LOL.
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Aug 2009
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Do I think what Suarez did was 'racist'? No. Am I saying he is a racist? No. Do I think Suarez mentioned Evra's colour to wind him up? Possibly. To be fair, I don't really know what really happened, but I think that that was the issue for the FA. The fact that Evra was so easily bated is a separate issue and many people will feel that he should have just ignored Suarez in the same way that people at work have to shrug off jokes about being Welsh, Irish etc. I'm sure that had Evra made a comment about Suarez's South American roots in the same way, the whole matter would be viewed in a different light. However, we are, in a society where, as many on here have already observed, the sensitivities of some groups are considered in a different way to others (Mr Hansen will surely agree) - so that social norms are somewhat skewed. Saying that, I don't buy the 'cultural differences' defence because Suarez had been in Ajax for three years and could surely not have failed to pick up on the attitudes that prevail around and about.
If he admitted using the words he used then he admitted to breaching a norm that he should have been aware of. That's what I mean by doing wrong. Why did he need to mention Evra's colour? If he hasn't noticed that we're knee deep in egg shells round here, he's not very switched on.
A more sinister aspect is the fact that Fergsuon appears to have encouraged Evra to feel especaiily hard done to when, he himself, probably suspected that there wasn't really anything to the whole incident in the first place. I doubt a comment from a Luton player in a cup tie would have been amplified in the same way. Using Evra's sensitivities to gain political leverage over the FA and LFC is pretty low. If Evra ever sees it this way he'll be hacked off all over again - but this time with the right person.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,746
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,746 |
I'm a Liverpool fan, and I support the club. If I think we're doing something wrong, I'll complain, I'll boo, I'll campaign for a manager or poor owners to be removed.
In this particular case, I think Suarez has done nothing wrong. Nothing. And I'll stick by him and stick by the club. And if the club gave him anything other than full support including the manager, then I'd be very disappointed.
I see some talk about how the manager should be staying out of this. If Kenny did stay out, we'd have fans criticising him for not sticking up for his players. Remember fans slating Hodgson for not sticking up for Torres when he was accuse dof being a diver?
Ferguson supported Evra, and Evra is a tw@t and in the wrong here. Ferguson continues to get involved. So please don#t post this nonsense that it is inappropriate for Kenny to get involved. He's the leader of the players. If anything he should be even more involved. Omg ! The great posts continue. Having heard the side of the story coming from Suarez and backed up by his countrymen such as Poyet you can see how Ferguson jumped the gun here and backed his man beyond his standing. Now that the verdict is a couple of days old he is turning the knife again to ensure he is still heard. What a stubborn fool.
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