KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Common Sense

Forget Roy - he's a gonner - let's look to the future.

Since Roy Evans 3rd year in charge what we've lacked at the club is common sense.

RE's team started to pass the ball sideways forever in midfield and this persisted for two years - common sense would tell anybody this was futile as opponents packed the defence in front of us, but it carried on.

Common sense told us there was an unacceptable party/drugs culture at the club and nothing was done about it.

Common sense told us that Houllier shouldn’t have started criticising his players in public the way he did, but he started a dreadful tradition that exists to this day with Hodgson and cost us most dearly with Fowler and Alonso – a club should be tight, water tight and lips sealed (as much as is possible in the modern age).

Common sense told us that Heskey was utterly useless but he was given game after game for four years.

Common sense told us that we should have moved heaven and earth to keep our greatest ever striker, Robbie Fowler.


Common sense told us that out youth structure was in trouble with a massive gap between the last flourish of Gerrard, Carragher and Thompsn to Spearing and Kelly but this was managed appallingly.

Common sense told us that because of this we started to pay outlandish wages and transfer fees to secure the services of ordinary players with a hint of potential …… the list is absolutely endless and frighteningly so.


Common sense tells us you need two genuine wingers but we haven’t really had any good enough since Berger and McMannaman.

Common sense tells you not to employ a manager with an away record as utterly shameless as RH’s.

Common sense would tell you when you are lucky to come by player like Litmanen of even Babel you bloody well play them so that they can progress.


Common sense tells us for far too long our squad has been too big.

Common sense told us that zonal defending was a waste of time but we had six years of it.

Common sense tells us that the best teams in the history of football to the present day have a preferred starting 11 – Rafa did not field the same 11 consecutively for the first 60 or so games.

I could go on. Whoever we get, let’s just hope they have common sense because we have been one badly run, managed financed club for nearly twenty years now and I think we are all sick to death of it and that’s why RH has been turned on the way he has. God knows we’ve had the money but by God have we wasted it.

Yawn.

Common sense tells me you have not moved with the times. You started off well, but your last few suggestions were just wrong. We lost only two games in 08/09 in the EPL using zonal marking. In which other season in recent memory has man marking served us to the same degree? How about this season when man marking is serving us so well? Zonal marking has its place but requires discipline - just like most of the rest of football - so if it fails it is generally the fault of the player to properly understand the system. It certainly wasn't invented by the Brazilians just because they had nothing better to do with their time. And don't come with "zonal marking is terrible for defending set pieces". Ask Chelsea how well man marking has worked out for them in the past two seasons at set pieces - that's right, they conceded more than any other team in the league from set pieces. This comment of yours is sour grapes - no more. How else do you think Pepe Reina beat every other LFC keeper to 100 clean sheets?

If the squad has been too big for too long, then the fact that its 21 deep now must surely excite you, until you realize that one of our larger issues is that we have absolutely no depth in certain areas - LB, DM, and CB for starters.

As for preferred starting 11, I'll remind you that Fergie changes his line-up more often than he changes underpants. He's been doing it for ages, but somehow the disillusioned only remember Rafa for this, and since he was the worse plague to come upon Liverpool whatever he did was completely wrong. Like zonal marking.

Seriously, if you're going to have a go at every manager we've had, why didn't you just say it was all the fault of Dalglish, like Reclaim, and be done with it? Common sense tells me you had nothing else to complain about, but felt the need to complain.

hahaha

Name another successful club in Italy, Spian, Germany, France or even the PL that uses zonal marking .... there are none. To compare the measured and relatively small changes in the squad Fergie makes with the insanity in the first year of Rafa's reign is absurd. As regards the squad size, can you please tell me what players we have 'willingly' let go this summer since Roy has taken over that would help us in our current plight? Possibly only Aquilani

Common sense tells me you like nothing more then being dismissive and arrogant ..... the general point i was making is that we've been a badly run club for far too long and we need owners and a manager who have good heads on their shoulders, so that when something is patently worng and not working they quickly change it. It will be no surprise that come the new year, our current manager and our two previous managers will all have been sacked - we have been managed by three very belligerent pig headed stubborn individuals whose pride and arrogance has cost the club dearly.

All I need to do is read your tagline, and I know all I need to know about where your comments come from.

A case in point LFC - Wolves, December 2010. You remember that game right? We continually gave them the ball because of their high pressing game - you said it yourself. What a sh*t system they have!

I like the way you said "let's look to the future" before ranting about the past. Nicely done.

Incidentally, common sense tells me that 'my opinion' does not necessarily equal 'common sense'.

And Fergie and Wenger are neither proud nor stubborn? Maybe that's what it takes - being spineless and passive-aggressive like Hodgson clearly doesn't do the trick. I didn't say we were not being mismanaged, but in terms of zonal marking it clearly worked despite what you say and despite how few teams use it - height and strength in the air have almost never been a Liverpool FC trademark, but you want Carra to spend 90 minutes trying to out-jump Drogba or race Lennon? Rafa had his faults, but we qualified for the CL 5 times out of 6 with us - no manager since Dalglish did that, and it doesn't happen by luck. He also won it and took us to another final. Whether you understand pride or not, that was what Rafa brought to the club before squad investment dried up; that's why he has so much support despite his occasionally disgraceful player purchases. The question is whether your common sense regarding him is right, or are you just regurgitating the nearest xenophobic rag?

Standing off and letting the opposition have all the possession and space in the world is so much better.

"The question is whether your common sense regarding him is right, or are you just regurgitating the nearest xenophobic rag?"

1. Is Roy Hodgson considered foreign? (Although I am Scottish, but you weren't to know that – so enough of your quasi liberal sensationalist claptrap – after all two of the players I defend above were Finnish and Dutch respectively, so I resent your accusation of racism)

2. It's ok to be proud and belligerent when you're blessed with a healthy compliment of common sense, but when you're a loon like Ged, Rafa and to a lesser degree Woy it's a bad thing.

3. I may be wrong and may not have the general support, particularly of the younger fans, but CL qualification is not success - winning the league is the true litmus test of success at this club and we have not done this a long time. Moreover, Rafa with a team cleasned of all of Ged’s dross won only and FA cup and nothing since 2006. Hardly success?

4. Can you please have the manners to provide with the list of wonderful players we let go this summer who would have made the difference??

5. Don’t get me wrong – I like Rafa, not least because he likes us and it’s a genuine feeling he has for the club, but he had plenty of time. As for Dalglish, as you might notice from other posts I’m in favour of him returning for the rest of the season and in no way blame the clubs demise on a manager who had to deal with Heysel and Hillsborough.

My point regarding xenophobic rags is simple enough to understand - the English press is high on hating people who go against the norms, particularly foreigners, and very much in favour of a local man. I asked if you were simply regurgitating their opinion - if you decide that means I believe you are xenophobic then that's your decision to make; I expected you to understand the difference, but apparently I was wrong.

I agree that winning the league is bigger than winning the CL - I would say that the EPL is probably the only league in Europe where this is true. But it's the next best thing, and I'll take whatever I can. We haven't had the squad to win the league since the 80s - times changed and we did not, and nowadays you can't win the league with just your best 14 anymore (though it sounds like you want us to try).

LFC has never been big on investment; the occasional marquee signing besides. Under H&G we had no choice but to shop for bargains, and the squad suffered as a result; we've sold our stars and bought rubbish in their stead. But that's not entirely the fault of the manager, be he Ged or Rafa, though certainly they could have done better. And until the last manager we had no youth system to speak of. We weren't growing them at home, and we weren't prepared to spend on imported goods; we were never going to win the league like that, were we?

And I'm not a "younger fan", btw. Been supporting the club going on 25 years now.