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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 228
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 228 |
There's to many that's been like that, but in all fairness torres has never been the type to run round like a work horse like dirk kuyt. chances are few and far between this season, apart from the link up in the 1st half between him and ngog, what other telling service did he get played on the ground to him? Yeah, exactly. Every striker fluffs opportunities. But if they only get a few chances then the ones they fluff stand out so much more. And if the chances they get usually consist of optimistic balls lobbed haphazardly forward, they're going to fluff more than they would with better build-up play. At the moment Torres is doing what he's told to, which is staying up front between the central defenders. He's not being lazy, he is putting in the runs and keeping his position in line with play. But without the build-up play he can't do much. On the rare occasion we do actually get anything resembling a half-decent ball to him, the link-up play is usually shockingly bad, the players just aren't on the same wavelengths. It's always hard to say which end the problem is on in those situations, but I will say one thing: it's the manager's job to sort that kind of problem out. I'm not saying Torres is playing his best - he clearly isn't. But I will say that Torres looks to me to be frustrated, not lazy, and that in my opinion his level of play is a reflection of the team's overall level of play and that it turn is a reflection of our terrible tactics. That's slightly born out by the Premier League actim stats by the way - their ranking has Torres as the ninth best striker in the league at the moment. Obviously stats only tell you so much, and ninth is well below where a player like Torres should be, but it's also not the position of a player who is sucking as much as some of you seem to think he is.
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Reclaim The Club
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Reclaim The Club
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u must have been watching a different game to me then,cos i didnt see it that way.and its not like this is a one off.every team that plays us knows full well that they have a good chance of a win because we are so poor. We used to wipe the floor with teams like Wolves at Anfield under Benitez, and he did it with pretty much the same players. Even in Rafa's worst season, we didn't perform this badly. So if we could do that under Rafa, then the players themselves are man for man better than the Wolves players. I'm not sure why I even need to explain that to you. Look at the internationals we had out there. Torres, Gerrard and Reina, 3 of the best players in the world. What do Wolves have? Jarvis? Hunt? Come on, wake up. You forgetting the games against Havant and Waterlooville, Barnsley and that awful Wigan away one last season, thats as well as spending 170 million on players
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 315
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 315 |
Fellow Reds,
Even the most patient of you must agree that RH has to go.
We are in serious trouble. No leadership. No flair or ability to breakdown inferior teams. No direction from the bench.....
and critically an obvious lack of respect and belief in the manager.
1-0 at home to a poor Wolves team (who are playing better than us), who have the worst away record this season and haven't beaten us at Anfield for nearly 30 years!
Its just not on. Even if we salvage a draw (which is unlikely), he has to go now! This was a must win game. No excuses. In charge we have seen Blackpool demolish us, Stoke beat us for the first time in nearly 30 years........ and Northammpton anyone?
Please, show him the door. Give King Kenny the reins until at least the summer. If he does th business then great, keep him on. He knows how to play football and the world would be great again for a short while . We'd all love that honeymoon period. And if it stays the same we bide our time for the right man!
Please NESV act now!!!!
YNWA Hit the nail on the head, with your views, totally agree 150%. If Mr Henry does not sack RH within the next couple of days, then fan power will be used by, boycotting all home games until RH leaves LFC before he does anymore damage on the pitch and destroys the players mentally.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,264
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,264 |
just got in from the game and for me Hodgson messed up big time tonite. Firstly he should never of changed the team to accomadate Gerrard, the team must always come first, we seen tonite why Steven Gerrard will never be a central midfielder while he has a hole in his ar*e simply because the man has no discilpline in his game. The other reason he messed up was splitting up Lucas and Meireles, Meireles is a central midfielder not a right sided one so you either play him in the centre or not at all. One of the other reasons I think Hodgson messed up is, that you cant play a team with 9 men all the time, I say 9 men because we have carried Torres and Kuyt all season, these two dirty, stinking imposters have conned the life out of the fan's all season and fans need to wise up. I have backed Roy Hodgson all season against the majority of people on here, not because I think he is or is'nt a good manager just for the fact I dont think any manager who has a big rebuilding job on should be sacked after one season and definately not after 7 games like Liverpool fans wanted, I still stick by my argument in that any manager should be judged when he has all his own players in and the team is playing the way the manager wants, he should also be given the same money to spend as previous managers, I think that's the fairest way to judge any manager, not just ours. If Hodgson does get replaced I personaly dont want that sh*thouse Dalglish in charge as it was him who started the demise of the Club in the first place and he has'nt got the gutts for a fight which was proved when he bottled it and walked out last time. If they were to give the job to that monster Benitez then am afraid my 35 years of going the match, 25 years as a season ticket holder will come to an end. I have said in previous posts on here that these problems we are having are not down to Hodgson but just down to the demise of a once great Club over the last 20 odd years it's been a gradual thing which happened to other great Clubs like Leeds Utd in the 70's and Everton in the 80's, it's just now it's happend to us and our fans find it hard to accept it so they keep bringing up past history which is always the last throw of the dice of once proud fans. To be honest you are the first "fan" that i have ever heard refer to Kenny as a shithouse.You heard the chants last night right?
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thundyr
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thundyr
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Ask yourself a question, Reclaim: how do you build a football team? I'm not talking about "with money", because that has its own traps as Man City and Real Madrid continue to discover.
Maybe I'm wrong, but you take a core of players and you set them as the spine of the team, and then you buy/choose players who will compliment them, selling those who fall outside the plan to help fund purchases. If these players are all CBs then so be it - there are several formations and tactics that can accommodate that. For LFC we have a sweeper-keeper, a striker, and an attacking, versatile midfielder who likes to lead by example but hates not to roam, all 3 of whom would get into any top tier club side in the world. That must surely be the core; these are players of rare quality. Maybe none of them is in great form, and maybe some of them are sulking because of the demise of their team. But they are still the core. Without them you have nothing; a bunch of players who can hopefully kick a ball better than those in a game in the park. There is no reason that should make you want to sell them.
So you look at that core and decide what they need. Since the attacking players have a fantastic rapport keep them together. But they're not both strikers, and the one that is operates best alone. Ergo, never EVER play 4-4-2 unless the AMC is injured (+other considerations like second choice strikers, can the lone striker work with a second striker, is there another useful AMC (Cole) etc). What did Roy do last night? Fail football 101. Seriously - it doesn't get more basic than that. I was also part of the Stevie G as CM crowd at the start of the season, and I failed that same Football 101 as a result. But I've learned from my mistake - Roy hasn't, and he's the guy whose meant to be smarter than me.
Moving on, we can see that this requires something like 4-2-3-1, but perhaps 4-3-3 works as well. However we have no wide players of any quality (outside said AMC), so 4-3-3 is likely to fail. This formation requires a strong central midfield pair - one to win the ball, one to distribute it. We had that, but now neither of those players is at the club. However Lucas and Meireles have formed at least a budding partnership, and therefore should never be split while they're both fit. No other players in the senior squad have any real ability at this level, so you just have to hope that you're not forced to start Spearing and Shelvey when you travel to Chelsea. So that covers Roy's second mistake.
The rest of the squad is practically worthless; average players that are typical of the mire H&G dragged us down to. Again though these are the people we have so we must use them. If Johnson is our best RB, then put him on the park, for goodness sake don't play football that forces him to defend! The same goes for our CBs, only one of whom is good in the air, and only one of whom is good on the ground. None are mobile. Giving the opponent space to run at these people is therefore the last thing we want! Put into the context that our RB is an attacking wingback, surely this means we must press up the pitch to deny the opponent space? This also gives Lucas better opportunities to get stuck in defensively, and gets more people near Meireles for him to distribute the ball to quickly and efficiently. It will create more space behind, so we need to practice offside trap play, and if Reina isn't perfectly suited to such a sweeping role then no one in the world is.
But no. We don't do that either.
We will concede goals by being more attacking. But at least we will create chances of our own, allow powerful players like Gerrard and Torres the opportunity to tear the opposition apart rather than stand by watching as we hoof it aimlessly.
This is how you build a team. Roy is not building; he's blathering.
King Kenny might have lost the plot two decades ago, but he still won the title with Blackburn after. He might not be the man to lead us back to the top, but he can't do worse than the numbskull currently in charge. At the very least he understands football, and will give us fresh impetus that may last long enough for us to secure top 6. What more can we ask for than that at this stage? Stay out of relegation? That's Roy's expectation, not one held by any supporter of LFC.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 133
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 133 |
Things that should happen now.
1. Hodgson should be fired. I don't care if it is his fault or not, but this would be a statement of intent from the new owners.
2. We should prepare for a mid table finish or worse.
3. EVERY player on the squad not passionate about playing for and turning around our great team should be replaced including Gerrard and Torres if they don't want to play.
4. The owners should find a new manager capable of handling the pressure of rebuilding our team.
I have been a supporter of this team for over 40 years and I have never felt so angry as I do tonight. However, I also can't believe a 25 year season ticket holder could ever call Dalglish a "shithouse". I know passions are high but we will get through this with a little calm and intelligence.
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thundyr
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thundyr
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Things that should happen now.
1. Hodgson should be fired. I don't care if it is his fault or not, but this would be a statement of intent from the new owners. Agreed. But first they should speak to Commolli and Hodgson together to learn the names of players they intend to buy and why. That way when the meeting is over and they sack Roy, Commolli doesn't have a chance to sign whoever he feels like signing. 2. We should prepare for a mid table finish or worse. "Expect" to miss top 6, yes. But always live in hope that a fresh start, fresh ideas, and fresh tactics can get us back on the road again. 3. EVERY player on the squad not passionate about playing for and turning around our great team should be replaced including Gerrard and Torres if they don't want to play. I don't think they don't want to play; I think they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Inspire them a bit. Torres and Reina may still leave anyway in the summer, which would leave us needing to fill 9 holes in the first team, so we're much better off putting our effects towards having them willing to stay another season. 4. The owners should find a new manager capable of handling the pressure of rebuilding our team. Absolutely. He's likely to have nothing to work with, not a great deal of funds to buy with, but must build towards something; not build to stay mid-table. Someone ambitious, a good motivator, tactically adept. The Anti-Hodgson.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,264
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,264 |
As many of you are aware tonights performance was awful and by far the worst of this season.
Hodgson has lost my remaining respect for him, like most people I was giving him a chance as I belived over a few seasons with a bit of money he could bring a different type of winning football to Liverpool, something we have never seen before or in ages.
However everything that makes Liverpool great bekons upon us having a quick fix to win the league in possibley 2-3 years. Our history and our glory of being Englands most succesful club will be over run my Man Utd when they next win the title, whenever that maybe.
People were saying when we went on that small run of wins a month or so ago we were on the way to recovery. [oops]!
All we did was play football against teams who were so unbelivabley [oops] and shattered of confidence in West Ham and Aston Villa (teams in decline), you could also through Chelsea into that mix to an extent.
The facts are in all our home games the highest possesion figure we have had is 62 % which is average. Our average home possesion figure is 52% which is horrific when you consider a title challenging teams away possesion record should be roughly that.
Theres also the fact that Hodgson has no plan B for his patented 4-4-2 formation, If Plan A is stiflled he has no back up plan. Those of you who have watched Fulham play will have also noticed this from last season, the most obvious e.g being Europa league final: Played well then Atletico turned it on and they couldn't change there plan and just got penned in, trying to play up to single target man to try to score with 10 men defending and the striker not being able to hold the ball up.
Lastly these are the reasons I can remember for wanting us to sack Benitez:
Built bad squad
Doesn't play attacking football
Doesn't change matches in right time using subs,
Bad tranfer record
Bad man management
Owners issue
Weird subs
Firstly, the press and commentators overaly critisised our team, when in actual fact our team wasn't that bad. Hodgson in the first month we got the new owners said that we needed 4-6 new players to improve the squad, yet two weeks ago its gone down to 1 or 2 players needed in his opinion.
Playing defensive football is better than playing losing football by miles, it goes back to the debate with Mourinho do you want attractive football or winning football. Similarly do you want defensive football or losing football considering in Hodgsons whole time in England he has only won 8 away matches ever.
Benitez always made 3 substitutes in all games, however some argue that the 2nd or 3rd sub would come on too late. In comparison if you haven't noticed Hodgson rarely makes 2 or 3 substitutes in a match and barely does anything during a match on the sidelines. At least Rafa barely sat down and was always meticulous with his work on the sidelines, whether it was shouting tactics, hand movements, substitues, or constant communication with coaches seated behind him.
We all know Rafa was hot and cold in the transfer market, He had belters and stinkers. However if you look at Roy's signings so far being, Poulson, Konchesky, Auerelio and Meireles, only Merieles stands a chance of being desent as in a title winning squad rotation player, all the rest are flops.
Joe Cole wasn't even signed by Roy as he admitted last week in an interview about Joe's form, so no credit there.
Benitez was rumoured to being so meticulous when it came to his work only the real proffesionals would be ok under his management, the players who rely on people telling them they are the best and giving them hugs and the lot suffered under him as seen with Babel, Keane, Riera, Lucas, Bellamy.
Hodgson on the other hand is better as he is less of a perfectionist and concentrates a little more on the squad's conditioning than the small details, this benefits the players such as Babel, but weighs down on the big players at the club such as Reina, Cole, Torres, Johnson, as they wtop working on the small details in their game that makes them different from the rest.
The ownership issue was complex, but both managers in the end had no say in the matter, altough Benitez did plead his case and got the supporters to see how bad the owners were from himself seeing them first hand.
I also want to mention weird subs that in the end got Rafa sacked with that Birmingham game coming to mind when Torres was subbed off. At the time you thought WTF is he doing but now we know exactly what he was doing, trying to prevent Torres from becoming the player he is today, a shadow of himself. Hodgson has done the same thing as Benitez except sicne he hasn't has any proper high profile must win games, no one has taking notice of what he's done. Numerous times this season he has made subs and team choices based on the Auzzy medical teams and there opinion, an e.g of this is the Utrecht game where Torres didn't start, like wise at Birmingham it was pre arranged for Torres to come off at 60-70 mins as he knee wouldn't hold up longer, which in the end it didn't.
Lastly Benitez fought with everyone when it came to the respect of this club, no matter how high profile or low profile you were if you disrespected the club in any way you'd get verbal abuse from Rafa. e.g Rafa rant, Itandje Hillsboruogh incident, Riera Lfc sinking ship, etc
Hodgson is the complete opposite he is more interested in keeping his spotless image of being Mr Nice Guy rather than defend LFC in any shape or form. He has even done worse by asking us to lower our expectations and ambitions to his [oops] lfc playing level, this is LFC the most succesful side in England FOR NOW and you want us to lower our expectations is unbeleivable. Also to state in all post match interviews that we have played ok or not bad when we get hammerred or play horrifc is not very ambitious is it, especialy when it's after the Everton, Stoke, Newcastle and Wolves games.
Post match Wolves - "I think we can consider ourselves a bit unlucky to lose it, I think 0-0 would not have been an unfair result but there you go. They got a lucky break and put the ball away so we lose all three points and disappoint our fans yet again."
0-0 against bottom of the table Wolves would dissapoint the fans let alone a loss.
I'm not posting this to say lets get back Rafa Benitez. What I'm asking for all the people wanting him sacked and I've asked my friend who wanted Rafa gone as well, Why are we allowing Hodgson who has alredy brought Liverpool down from where Rafa left us last season continue being our manager.
IMO I'd love to see a new manager brought in (Personaly Andre Villas-Boas is my choice), but for the time being we have too managers who want to be LFC manager right here in Liverpool in kenny Dalglish and Rafa Benitez. The owners and hierarchy at the club believe if Kenny comes back and does poor then it may tarnish his reputaion, so why not bring in rafa for the end of the season because he can't get worse one a top 7 as the squad is the same and let Commoli do the transfers. Because at worst rafa left us in the Europa league, with Hodgson you can see us finishing lower than the likes of Bolton, Sunderland and maybe Blackpool. ALso Hogson has a 1 yr contract and the owners are stingy so he'll defo be goingby minimum of the summer
YNWA
Comments.....
Hodgson has a 3 year contract?And secondly i hope your friend is enjoying this after getting his wish...fuc*ing sunshiners!!
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,380
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,380 |
fck off emp, go back in Hodgson anus Think you over stepping the line a bit now.
The following is based on actual events. Only the names, locations and events have been changed.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444 |
Fine ok Roy Hodgson possiby isnt good enough to arrest the long term decline of LFC , And he is in charge at this moment and will go sooner rather than later , But this has been coming for years down to wasted millions by prevlous manager and idiots in the board room not just H&G but moores.robinson.white.parry to name a few .plus the player on superhuman wages who are a disgrace the alleged "superstars" going through the motions , Ok sack hodgson great but that will not solve the problems at LFC until people get this we have a god given right to be a champions league team ETC and so on , the club is rotten from the board who have done nothing to arrest the slide to the support who believe all the clubs and teams woes are down to Roy Hodgson's inability to arrest the clubs decline and until reality is at LFC and thing are seen for what they are we will never have any good times at LFC , As i say hodgson is to blame NOW because how bad the players and squad are the buck stop at him but the problems are not all down to him by a long chalk .
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