KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Andre Villas Boas

Damn, can't edit. Might as well write another essay.

All managers will have fans calling for their heads if they don't seem up to the task. What makes them seem up to the task? If they deliver according to the fans' wishes. What must they deliver? It depends on the club. What did Roy try to do first day on the job? LOWER EXPECTATION. That's an immediate failure in the eyes of many. He will therefore need to exceed his lowered expectations by some margin before the fans take to him, and yet he's not even lived up to his own standards. Are you really surprised that people want him to shut the door on his way out?

A little history lesson for you:

For Rafa in his first season he didn't suddenly win everything - he lost a lot of games, and there will have been some mutters about his ability. But he didn't lose so many that he was clearly worse than his predecessors in their first season (in fact he was about average based on the first few games). He also kept winning in the League Cup (minor as it is, it's still a competition and a trophy to win), and he held on in the CL with important victories. There was therefore enough impetus to keep the dissenting voices to a minimum despite our EPL form. By January it's fair to say (with a final under his belt and progress to the knock-out stages of the CL) that his future was secured for the remainder of the season, regardless of the Burnley result (which we all accept was a shocker). Then he won the CL. 14 EPL losses or not, that's the big one, isn't it?

But some people would have been concerned about the EPL form, something he banished during his second season while winning another trophy. At this point you cannot say that Rafa has failed to deliver, is not fit to be the Liverpool manager, or that he deserves anything less than a 4 year contract.

And then Moores sold the club. From this point on everything goes downhill with the exception of several of his player purchases at the start of that season, yet YOU blame the manager for everything that happened. Wake up, guy.

Roy on the other hand gave us our worst EPL start since Shankley (despite saying he would concentrate on the EPL), gave us our worst loss EVER (Northampton), and has us playing the next-to-worst football in the league. He also openly criticizes the players which is something no manager should ever do. Where is the shining light that makes us believe in him? The win over an under-strength Chelsea who dominated the game while being unable to score? One win away from home in the league? Struggling to get results in the Europa Cup group stage? Complaining about a small squad without changing players or tactics? There's nothing there to suggest he's good enough FOR LIVERPOOL!

See there you go again, "it's widely accepted it was the Reading game last season, Northampton might of been a lower division team but We did get beat with a reserve team" you say it as if it's a fact and that everyone agrees with your opinion

As for the Reading defeat, I don't blame rafa one bit for that defeat, tea
we had out that day

reina, darby, insua, carra, skrtel, kuyt, aurelio, gerrard, Lucas, torres and ngog. It was the players fault they got beat not the manager, the side he put out was a fckin strong side capable of beating anyone.

There was more mistakes made in the side he put put v northampton that what rafa did

The one v Northampton was worse in my eyes, he gave a first team debut to Wilson who was played out of position, he played our most promising youngster on the right of midfield in Pacheco. Plus he played the useless babel, who ye was rafas buy but he still put him in the side. He had no experience whatsoever on the bench, to bring a gerrard on or torres even carragher to sure up the defence. He had jovanovic on but brought him off when he was having a decent game.


Reading defeat was down to the players, Northampton was down to the manager

Let's say we'd signed Villas Boas instead of Roy at the start of this season, and are in exactly the same position we are now (9th in the league, out of the League Cup to Northampton, top of our group in the Europa Cup but without really looking like we deserve to be there). Would we want him out?

Depends. (Just as it does for Roy, btw, though some people don't seem to see that, thinking it's all just a conspiracy or something)

It depends on our performances - how convincing have we been when winning? How close were the draws (ie did we draw while winning rather than closing the game out, or did we fight against a stronger team and deserve the point?)? Did we just roll over to Man City or was it more a case of the way Chelsea lost to us in reality this season - dominated possession but couldn't hit the mark?

The other important thing is that Villas Boas is in his early 30s, and will naturally be expected to be at least a little out of his depth in the EPL having only had experience in Portugal. He would get more leeway than Roy simply because his credentials show him to be a fast learner and a student of the game, while Roy is just a stubborn old codger. One could certainly expect the younger man to experiment more (without necessarily having better results), which would include things like booting experienced players who simply aren't up to scratch and trying a younger guy simply because he's all we've got. Roy would rather force the squad to change rather than changing his mid-table system. Roy is not a bad manager, he's just not the right manager for this club; it really is as simple as that.

If we're going to screw an entire season up (and let's be honest here, most of us expected this season to be a disaster thanks to H&G and their shenanigans), I'd rather have someone dynamic at the helm. I'm not saying Villas Boas is the bee's knees, but we need someone who is actually trying to take the club somewhere rather than just trying to stay afloat.

Forget which was worse northampton or reading. It is a matter of opinion which was worse, not a fact.

What IS a fact, and can't be argued, is that we had our worst start in 50-60 years. We have less points this year than we did after the same number of games last year. We've scored less too and have a worse goal difference.

And last season wasn't good enough. These are the facts, no Hodgson fan can argue with any of those.

I still dont understand what your saying, looking at the way the season has started for all the teams we are still bang on course to finish in the top four, wether we do or not is another matter. Anyone who knows about football will know it's going to take alot longer than five months to change the style of a teams play around. You mention Roy's signings well apart from Raul the signings realisticaly were all we were ever going to get considering the Club was in a mess off the field with ownership turmoil, lets see what Roy does with better funds then we can judge his signings, I cant honestly reckon they will be worse than Benitez with money wasted on Keane, Johnson, Mascherano and Aqualani all around the 20 million pound mark, he even wanted to replace Xabi with Gareth Barry which is a complte joke. The next thing you mention is age, still dont understand why this is a problem, Fergie is showing now signs of stepping down and Wenger and Guus Hidink are older and around the same age, Roy is only two years older then Dalglish and alot of the fans want him so age is no problem at all if the manager is the rite person. Roy Hodgson will get funds in the Summer so am afraid you will have to get use to the idea, like it or not, which I happen to think is the rite decision.