KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Andre Villas Boas

Your missing the whole point am not just backing Hodgson am backing whoever comes in after just five months in charge, it's scandelous how people on here have'nt given the guy a chance.

For me the frustrating part is that no matter who we play or where we play it's the same defensive tactic that gets played and if Roy were to attack teams that we should beat on paper then I don't think there would be such an uproar.....he hasn't changed anything in any games that we have played and that is what's p1ssing some of us fans off the most. If he decided to take games (and he has some players to do that) then his criticism would be a lot less I suggest!
This is the main reason people are saying to get rid of him because in the 20 odd games that he has been manager they have all been the same old boring crap!

Unless I understand nothing about football, the FA Cup starts in January for EPL sides. A January after Benitez took the team to the League Cup final. Not much calling for his head, was there? He later took them to Istanbul. I've said several times that it won't be hard to find bad games in Rafa's 6 seasons, but bad runs of games like Roy has taken us through will not be found. We're still playing the worst footie in the league (okay, second worst now that West Ham have completely fallen off the bus), and are lucky to be as near the top as we are because United can't win away from home and Chelsea are injury-stricken and have lost form.

So the point is that at no time during Rafa's first season did it really look like he would not be able to deliver (and especially not by November). He did not have a fantastic squad either (repeatedly called "the worst to win the Champions' League"). In his second season he lost only 6 EPL games and won the FA Cup - YOU were not calling for his head in his first two seasons, were you? If you were it's surely only because of the Burnley loss, and 1 game does not break a manager. Yes, he lost 14 in the EPL that season, which is indeed high, but he did that while being successful at the same time (you might have forgotten that Rafa did not concentrate on the EPL because he didn't have the squad to do so - he focussed on Cups and Europe, and successfully so even you would be forced to admit). I'll say it for the millionth time: look at the whole picture. But Roy hasn't looked like being able to deliver anything other than excuses and attacks on the players since the Arsenal game.

Damn, can't edit. Might as well write another essay.

All managers will have fans calling for their heads if they don't seem up to the task. What makes them seem up to the task? If they deliver according to the fans' wishes. What must they deliver? It depends on the club. What did Roy try to do first day on the job? LOWER EXPECTATION. That's an immediate failure in the eyes of many. He will therefore need to exceed his lowered expectations by some margin before the fans take to him, and yet he's not even lived up to his own standards. Are you really surprised that people want him to shut the door on his way out?

A little history lesson for you:

For Rafa in his first season he didn't suddenly win everything - he lost a lot of games, and there will have been some mutters about his ability. But he didn't lose so many that he was clearly worse than his predecessors in their first season (in fact he was about average based on the first few games). He also kept winning in the League Cup (minor as it is, it's still a competition and a trophy to win), and he held on in the CL with important victories. There was therefore enough impetus to keep the dissenting voices to a minimum despite our EPL form. By January it's fair to say (with a final under his belt and progress to the knock-out stages of the CL) that his future was secured for the remainder of the season, regardless of the Burnley result (which we all accept was a shocker). Then he won the CL. 14 EPL losses or not, that's the big one, isn't it?

But some people would have been concerned about the EPL form, something he banished during his second season while winning another trophy. At this point you cannot say that Rafa has failed to deliver, is not fit to be the Liverpool manager, or that he deserves anything less than a 4 year contract.

And then Moores sold the club. From this point on everything goes downhill with the exception of several of his player purchases at the start of that season, yet YOU blame the manager for everything that happened. Wake up, guy.

Roy on the other hand gave us our worst EPL start since Shankley (despite saying he would concentrate on the EPL), gave us our worst loss EVER (Northampton), and has us playing the next-to-worst football in the league. He also openly criticizes the players which is something no manager should ever do. Where is the shining light that makes us believe in him? The win over an under-strength Chelsea who dominated the game while being unable to score? One win away from home in the league? Struggling to get results in the Europa Cup group stage? Complaining about a small squad without changing players or tactics? There's nothing there to suggest he's good enough FOR LIVERPOOL!

Whether Roy is the man for the job or not (jury is well and truly out on that one) his age alone means he wont be here for the long run.

If you take all the bickering about Roy and Rafa out of this, the club needs a manager young and strong enough to be here for 20 to 25 years. A man the new owners trust, and most important fits in with the new way in which the club is run with youth been the front runner and resale (like viera and Henry at arsenal) a working point at the club. This lad seems to fit the bill perfectly. I don't think we should miss out on him

Let's say we'd signed Villas Boas instead of Roy at the start of this season, and are in exactly the same position we are now (9th in the league, out of the League Cup to Northampton, top of our group in the Europa Cup but without really looking like we deserve to be there). Would we want him out?

Depends. (Just as it does for Roy, btw, though some people don't seem to see that, thinking it's all just a conspiracy or something)

It depends on our performances - how convincing have we been when winning? How close were the draws (ie did we draw while winning rather than closing the game out, or did we fight against a stronger team and deserve the point?)? Did we just roll over to Man City or was it more a case of the way Chelsea lost to us in reality this season - dominated possession but couldn't hit the mark?

The other important thing is that Villas Boas is in his early 30s, and will naturally be expected to be at least a little out of his depth in the EPL having only had experience in Portugal. He would get more leeway than Roy simply because his credentials show him to be a fast learner and a student of the game, while Roy is just a stubborn old codger. One could certainly expect the younger man to experiment more (without necessarily having better results), which would include things like booting experienced players who simply aren't up to scratch and trying a younger guy simply because he's all we've got. Roy would rather force the squad to change rather than changing his mid-table system. Roy is not a bad manager, he's just not the right manager for this club; it really is as simple as that.

If we're going to screw an entire season up (and let's be honest here, most of us expected this season to be a disaster thanks to H&G and their shenanigans), I'd rather have someone dynamic at the helm. I'm not saying Villas Boas is the bee's knees, but we need someone who is actually trying to take the club somewhere rather than just trying to stay afloat.

well said thundyr.

Spot on.

What?You mean this is not dynamic enough for you??

Kinda sum's them both up.