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I completely believe (and have experience) that covid can be harmful and that the vaccines overwhelmingly are beneficial, however that being said my points are:

- I really don't think lockdowns make that much difference, viruses are going to spread one way or another. The only certainty with lockdowns are the economic and social problems which occur because of the lockdown.

- Evidence on mask effectiveness is not conclusive. Most people where I live have been wearing masks for 2 years, never once has a wave been stopped because of mask wearing and "those 2 guys in the shop not wearing them" aren't the reason behind why we keep getting waves.

- Vaccines should be a free choice and whilst have shown to help reduce transmission it seems they do not prevent you catching it so protect yourself if you want to.

- What about overwhelming the NHS? I hear you cry. The NHS is overwhelmed with the obese, addicts, alcoholics, mental health problems, smokers and the list goes on. Perhaps if we put half as much effort into reducing all these social problems our NHS would benefit 10 fold and would have been in an amazing place to take up the added pressure of covid.

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Originally Posted By Pickles
Did it not originate from a lab in Wuhan China? WuFlu < how is this xenophobic?

And viruses by definition get lesser with each strain, that's not hyberbole or conjecture that's science, the one thing being overlooked through all this in this so called pandemic.
The data has been manipulated many, many times over so it is just like the media very untrustworthy!

Ask yourself why thousands of Doctors and Nurses the world over have lost their jobs not to take these vaccines?

Vaccine injuries are being under reported by the media and Governments. The ones right before your very eyes are being swept under the carpet, why is that? Aguero, Eriksen, Lindelof to name a few.

It's high time folks question what is really going on? without fear of retribution.

There's a lot of powerful people making bank out of all this, why is it so expensive for vaccines when there's legitimate much lesser priced alternatives with much better outcomes?

Back to the subject of the thread - Spurs, Man Utd, Villa reporting outbreaks and some Championship clubs now, surely it's only a matter of time before Government shuts it all down?


In other news the earth is flat. Be careful you don't step off the edge.

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Originally Posted By jim_beam
I completely believe (and have experience) that covid can be harmful and that the vaccines overwhelmingly are beneficial, however that being said my points are:

- I really don't think lockdowns make that much difference, viruses are going to spread one way or another. The only certainty with lockdowns are the economic and social problems which occur because of the lockdown.

- Evidence on mask effectiveness is not conclusive. Most people where I live have been wearing masks for 2 years, never once has a wave been stopped because of mask wearing and "those 2 guys in the shop not wearing them" aren't the reason behind why we keep getting waves.

- Vaccines should be a free choice and whilst have shown to help reduce transmission it seems they do not prevent you catching it so protect yourself if you want to.

- What about overwhelming the NHS? I hear you cry. The NHS is overwhelmed with the obese, addicts, alcoholics, mental health problems, smokers and the list goes on. Perhaps if we put half as much effort into reducing all these social problems our NHS would benefit 10 fold and would have been in an amazing place to take up the added pressure of covid.


I agree except for lockdowns. Last year there was an almost total lockdown for almost 4 months in my country and Covid cases was reduced to nil, and after that we had several months of living normally, we even had a normal Christmas and New year. However, we couldn't keep our borders shut, so as soon as we opened up, cases went up and hospitals started to fill up. Problem is that very few had fought the infection and as soon as the infection started it kept on going despite a high number of vaccinated. Vaccines do not really prevent infections but reduces the risks of serious illness. The lockdown should be used every now and then, to reduce serious illness to be able to manage hospitals admissions.

I think that football will soon be played with limited number of fans for a few weeks

Last edited by EnergisedReds; 21/12/21 05:38 PM.
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Originally Posted By AccaBoosty
Originally Posted By Pickles
Did it not originate from a lab in Wuhan China? WuFlu < how is this xenophobic?

And viruses by definition get lesser with each strain, that's not hyberbole or conjecture that's science, the one thing being overlooked through all this in this so called pandemic.
The data has been manipulated many, many times over so it is just like the media very untrustworthy!

Ask yourself why thousands of Doctors and Nurses the world over have lost their jobs not to take these vaccines?

Vaccine injuries are being under reported by the media and Governments. The ones right before your very eyes are being swept under the carpet, why is that? Aguero, Eriksen, Lindelof to name a few.

It's high time folks question what is really going on? without fear of retribution.

There's a lot of powerful people making bank out of all this, why is it so expensive for vaccines when there's legitimate much lesser priced alternatives with much better outcomes?

Back to the subject of the thread - Spurs, Man Utd, Villa reporting outbreaks and some Championship clubs now, surely it's only a matter of time before Government shuts it all down?


In other news the earth is flat. Be careful you don't step off the edge.


see trump was booed for admitting he got the booster.. the lunatics turning on the lunatic

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Now read the reviews on the amazon link below:

https://www.amazon.com/UNDERSTANDING-OMICRON-VARIANT-Questions-Informed/dp/B09MYL7R13/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3RWY02WCHSYAJ&keywords=understanding+omicron+variant+book&qid=1640148109&sprefix=Understanding+Omicron+Variant%2Caps%2C824&sr=8-3

Skeptical yet?

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Originally Posted By Oli
Watching darts tonight. Thousands of people in a enclosed area and nobody using masks. Football is at least outside.


Not really at anfield inside the stands especially half time people are squashed together like sardines and inside accepted they are outdoors when the game is on but then still you are a yard from the person next to you and all the shouting that goes on. Don’t get me wrong I still go but if this is as bad as they say seems an unnecessary risk to me


IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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No one can take anything you say seriously. You puke up the usual bile from the far right - conspiracy theories, wish fulfilment, pseudo science, Trumpism, and worst rash of logical fallacies ever seen on this site. Your rag-tag collection of 'sources' are worthless - and what you declare to be 'insane' is simply updates on recent scientific data. Your backward attempts to clarify 'science' are laughable - kindergarten level logic at best. But worst of all you do that thing that all Trumpers do - PROJECTION. You accuse everyone else of being guilty of your worst faults - it's like claiming an election was stolen while trying to steal an election. It only fools fools. Accusing people going by the CDC or WHO of not doing 'research' then concocting an idiotic collation of non peer-reviewed speculations from the most questionable dark corners of the internet.

You really think your slippery slope/ false correlation fallacy mindset has any traction here? You think that smug clown act works with us when we see right through the act immediately? Can someone really be that delusional?



Originally Posted By Pickles
I was going to do a long and boring write up for you all, about what is going on, but I can't be ar..sed because people are too docile and dependent and won't do the research themselves and are happy to be told, what to do and when to do it! I mean you're all happy to trudge about in your daily lives struggling for free air, wearing useless masks that do nothing to protect you and others...but it makes others feel good!
I'll leave you with this though...

Q. What is the very definition of "Science"

A. "The careful study of the structure and behaviour of the physical world, especially by watching, measuring, and doing experiments, and the development of theories to describe the results of these activities".

Now read that answer carefully,

Q. What does "Carefully" mean?

A. Taking the time to do something right or without danger
Examples:
1. Attentive to potential danger, error, or harm; cautious: was careful when crossing the street; a careful answer.

2. Thorough and painstaking in action or execution; conscientious: a careful search; careful art restorers.

So with those answers in mind How can these "so-called" vaccines be called vaccines when the Science for them has not been done?

It takes years to create a vaccine for good reason because of side effects...they call it the efficacy. So why has this not been done?

They still have not isolated the original strain, the actual origin of the virus and to create a vaccine you need that...it is vital otherwise it is not a vaccine!

And why can't you sue the manufacturers for adverse reactions or Families sue for death?

Wake up...do your due diligence and question EVERYTHING about what is being pushed on you!


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You're wasting your time. Pickles perfectly illustrates the cretinisation of American - and this is the chief reason I'm trying to get out and move back to the UK. It's a mass mental illness facilitated by the biggest clown in US political history.

[/quote]

How do you question what has been happening in the hospitals everywhere in the world? Why is the number of deaths well lower in the vaccinated population compared to the non vaccinated one? Have you questioned this?[/quote]

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Oh lord - see what I mean. Whether the book is credible or not - thats a copyright date not a publishing date. You're so conspiracy minded that you're just not capable of logical debate at all.



Originally Posted By Pickles




Now read the reviews on the amazon link below:

https://www.amazon.com/UNDERSTANDING-OMICRON-VARIANT-Questions-Informed/dp/B09MYL7R13/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3RWY02WCHSYAJ&keywords=understanding+omicron+variant+book&qid=1640148109&sprefix=Understanding+Omicron+Variant%2Caps%2C824&sr=8-3

Skeptical yet?

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Fallacies galore!!! Here is what is on display here:

1. Projection - my speculations trump your facts.
2. Straw man - misrepresents Vish (and other people's) arguments
3. False cause - people behind vaccines are all trying to fool you
4. Appeal to emotion - I'll show you people, etc.
5. Slippery slope - people in medical industry are walking away BECAUSE...
6. False correlative - see above
7. Ad hominem - accuses Vish of being misled or ignorant (calls people names in other comments)
8. Special pleading - I can show you examples (but fails to give any).
9. Burden of proof - constantly dismisses scientific claims but always based on conjecture (and probably wish fulfilment).
10. Ambiguity - his arguments are always full of red herrings and personal conjecture
11. Black or white - always leaps to conclusions when more possibilities are apparent (claim about healthcare workers is just one example).
12. Anecdotal - this is true because I think it - or because I found some hazy internet site that backs me up.

I could go on but that would be pedantic. If you want to learn logical fallacies just read Pickles posts.




Originally Posted By Pickles
And who told you that Vish?

The very people pushing the numerous vaccine shots and boosters.

I can show you Nurses and Doctors telling how Hospitals closed down wards because the ensuing pandemic never happened. The only ones affected were already compromised with debilitating illnesses and the old with much lower immune systems, very much like the Flu does. Hospitals also get paid handsomely to report COVID cases and deaths. It's a real money spinner for them.

Why is there so many in the medical industry who are walking away from their jobs in not taking the many mandated vaccine shots and boosters? Why Vish? are you not even remotely curious?

You're seeing healthy athletes topple over right in front of your eyes on tv screens, with "No" honest explanation as to why? holding their chests or pointing to where their problem is, their chest/heart, gasping for air!





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