KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Bye Bye Premier League (New European Super League)

See you later Premier league.

And hello European super league.


At least we won't have premier league cart horses injuring our players as a bonus.

I am sickened by Liverpool backing shameless breakaway — fans will not tolerate it

Jamie Carragher

All I have heard from Liverpool this year is how much they have missed their fans.

Funny how the voices on the Kop matter only when it is most convenient.

The more I read about the European super league proposals, the more it seems Liverpool’s owners must like empty stadiums because all they have done is raise the likelihood of another mass walkout.

Liverpool’s game with Leeds on Monday night could not be better timed to expose the insanity of the closed-shop idea.

It is a game with potentially massive ramifications for Champions League qualification, full of jeopardy, and hence drama.

Millions will tune in for that reason, emotions running high whatever the result. The same anxious excitement will accompany all of Liverpool’s remaining seven games, which is why the broadcasters pay millions for them.

That is the beauty of league football – where every action and point matters. That is why, as a former Liverpool player, it sickens me that my club’s reputation is being damaged by the arrogance of an ownership group that wants to remove such peril, creating a culture where we no longer need to fight to earn our success. That is the antithesis of everything I understand football – especially in my city – to stand for.

To be tainted by association with the European super league is bad enough, but Liverpool’s apparent leading role in threatening football’s competitive ideals – the very ideals which allowed the club to emerge from England’s second division to become six-time European champions – is a betrayal of a heritage they are seeking to cash in on.

Manchester United’s shameless capitalism does not surprise me. United fans will agree that from day one, the Glazers have never hidden the fact they bought the club for the cash. They summed up their contempt for United fans when introducing a system forcing season-ticket holders to pay additional fees for cup matches.

But John W Henry is more cunning, courting fans’ groups in his early years and presenting himself as keen to engage, yet consistently failing to grasp the culture of the Kop. I was among the paying season-ticket holders who walked out in disgust when Liverpool tried to charge £77 for match tickets in 2016, and only last summer the club were forced to backtrack on their attempts to claim taxpayer funds for furloughed staff.

Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea and Spurs will also get rightly hammered for this. Those four always seem happy hiding behind Liverpool and United when the flak is flying.

Whenever these radical schemes emerge, it is an opportunity for everyone to pile in, accusing the so-called “elite” of self-interest. True as that is, the moralistic intervention of Uefa, the Football Association, national leagues and whatever government minister is after a few votes is laughable.

“It’s all about money. It’s all about greed,” they say. Wow. These organisations would jump on any passing gravy train if they thought it would make them richer.

Football, at every level of the professional game, is about money. The notion of English football being a meritocracy at the summit has been a myth since the Premier League formed, with only Blackburn Rovers (bankrolled by Jack Walker) and Leicester City shocking the world. Only seven clubs have won the Premier League in 29 years.

The actions of Liverpool and United, especially, are grounded on a grievance that for too long they have been denied the chance to make more of what they could earn, blocked from using their global popularity to maximise all revenue opportunities.

But that can never justify efforts to destabilise the system without the backing of those they most need – the fans.

Football executives always make the mistake of believing they are the most influential force in football. They swiftly realise that without the supporters, they are weak and powerless.

Official Liverpool FC Statement:

Liverpool Football Club can confirm that we have joined Europe's leading clubs in agreeing to form a new competition, the European Super League.

A joint statement released by all 12 founding clubs can be found below, with further information being made available in due course.

We are committed to working with all stakeholders, particularly supporters, as plans for the competition develop.

Twelve of Europe’s leading football clubs have today come together to announce they have agreed to establish a new mid-week competition, the Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

AC Milan, Arsenal FC, Atlético de Madrid, Chelsea FC, FC Barcelona, FC Internazionale Milano, Juventus FC, Liverpool FC, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid CF and Tottenham Hotspur have all joined as Founding Clubs. It is anticipated that a further three clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable.

Going forward, the Founding Clubs look forward to holding discussions with UEFA and FIFA to work together in partnership to deliver the best outcomes for the new League and for football as a whole.

The formation of the Super League comes at a time when the global pandemic has accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model. Further, for a number of years, the Founding Clubs have had the objective of improving the quality and intensity of existing European competitions throughout each season, and of creating a format for top clubs and players to compete on a regular basis.

The pandemic has shown that a strategic vision and a sustainable commercial approach are required to enhance value and support for the benefit of the entire European football pyramid. In recent months extensive dialogue has taken place with football stakeholders regarding the future format of European competitions. The Founding Clubs believe the solutions proposed following these talks do not solve fundamental issues, including the need to provide higher-quality matches and additional financial resources for the overall football pyramid.

Competition Format

20 participating clubs with 15 Founding Clubs and a qualifying mechanism for a further five teams to qualify annually based on achievements in the prior season.
Midweek fixtures with all participating clubs continuing to compete in their respective national leagues, preserving the traditional domestic match calendar which remains at the heart of the club game.
An August start with clubs participating in two groups of ten, playing home and away fixtures, with the top three in each group automatically qualifying for the quarter finals. Teams finishing fourth and fifth will then compete in a two-legged play-off for the remaining quarter-final positions. A two-leg knockout format will be used to reach the final at the end of May, which will be staged as a single fixture at a neutral venue.
As soon as practicable after the start of the men’s competition, a corresponding women’s league will also be launched, helping to advance and develop the women’s game.

The new annual tournament will provide significantly greater economic growth and support for European football via a long-term commitment to uncapped solidarity payments which will grow in line with league revenues. These solidarity payments will be substantially higher than those generated by the current European competition and are expected to be in excess of €10 billion during the course of the initial commitment period of the Clubs. In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic.

Florentino Pérez, President Real Madrid CF and the first Chairman of the Super League said:

“We will help football at every level and take it to its rightful place in the world. Football is the only global sport in the world with more than four billion fans and our responsibility as big clubs is to respond to their desires.”

Backing the new European league, Andrea Agnelli, Chairman of Juventus and Vice-Chairman of the Super League said:

“Our 12 Founder clubs represent billions of fans across the globe and 99 European trophies. We have come together at this critical moment, enabling European competition to be transformed, putting the game we love on a sustainable footing for the long-term future, substantially increasing solidarity, and giving fans and amateur players a regular flow of headline fixtures that will feed their passion for the game while providing them with engaging role models.”

Joel Glazer, Co-Chairman of Manchester United and Vice-Chairman of the Super League said:

“By bringing together the world’s greatest clubs and players to play each other throughout the season, the Super League will open a new chapter for European football, ensuring world-class competition and facilities, and increased financial support for the wider football pyramid.”

European Super League: 'I'm disappointed and disgusted' - Danny Murphy

As a boy, I watched Liverpool winning the league title and European Cup and dreamed of doing the same myself.

When I became a Liverpool player, I wanted to win the things those teams had done, to show I was as good as they were.

That history, that tradition - all of those things that have grown since Liverpool Football Club formed in 1892 - would disappear if they joined this proposed breakaway European Super League and were banned from the Premier League.

Everything that makes Liverpool the institution it is would be lost. If they leave domestic competition for this, what happens to the decades-long rivalry with Manchester United over who has won the most titles?

Do the things that mattered when I put on that red shirt suddenly not matter any more? Where do they go?

I am retired now, but it will be the same for current Liverpool players, and all those at the other English clubs involved - United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City and Tottenham.

They have been dreaming of winning the titles and trophies they grew up with, that they are competing for right now, because they mean so much.

They won't wake up tomorrow and think 'well all I want to do is win a stagnated European Super League'.

The plans, which were officially announced on Sunday night, sound soulless.

It is beyond belief, actually, that they can think they can put this idea forward with the thought it will just be brought in smoothly and have everyone accept it.

That is just a complete lack of understanding about our game, our traditions, what we love about football and what is in our hearts when we watch it and play the game.

We've already seen strong opposition from leagues and federations who would be affected, and fans as well. Next, I think we will see a backlash from managers and players too.

When I look at the proposals, and also the consequences if you are part of them, then from a players' point of view, I just don't see the appeal at all.

Part of the joy of being a player is the rewards you get for your success on the pitch - you earn it, individually and collectively. This way, you don't get any of that. You would just get a closed shop every season, playing the same clubs every time.

It sounds sterile and boring. Players don't want that, they want to be tested. If there are no incentives, there will be no intensity. What is left for you to play for?

You're also being told you can no longer play for your country if you are part of this. Again, that's what you dream of doing as a kid, so I just don't see many footballers agreeing to that, which actually gives me hope that this whole idea will quickly fall apart.

When news of the breakaway plans came through on Sunday, my reaction was the same as I'd expect from most people who love football - disappointment and disgust at the greed that is behind the idea.

The intention here has nothing to do with the love of football or progressing the game, it is just about money.

By signing up for this, you are changing everything. If the big six go down this road and leave the Premier League, it dismantles the whole pyramid which makes English football brilliant, and has been the bedrock of our game for generations.

That's what has shocked me. Not the idea itself, because it has been talked about for years, but that there are actually people within the hierarchies at the big clubs who aren't intelligent enough to understand how damaging this could be.

I'm open-minded enough to look at any ideas for football's future and consider the pros and cons of any changes, but I simply don't see any positives here.

As well as being guaranteed involvement every season, the clubs involved must think they will be able to sell the broadcast rights for these big games and get more money than they do now out of the Champions League and domestic competitions.

But I think they are naive, because I don't think there is an appetite to see the same fixtures every season, whoever is involved.

Some of the clubs involved who have got owners from the United States might like that model, which works in sports over there. That doesn't matter, though, because it doesn't work for English football.

Fans don't want to see that, they want excitement. They want to see their team respond to disappointment, and fight to reach the next level, and get the rewards that follow that success.

So to make it a closed shop, with no ins and outs unless the member clubs decide it, goes against the whole nature of football. It's not beneficial, and it's not sustainable.

If these plans go through, they will have huge repercussions for football in this country and beyond, but my hope is that they are dealt with properly, and in unison, by everyone who does have the game's best interests at heart.

I just hope this is not allowed to escalate, because the more I think about it, the more nonsensical it gets.

From a user called @james_corbett on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/james_corbett/status/1352652214272217088

Evertonian, author, founder @decoubertin
. Roving correspondent for http://offthepitch.com. Debut novel, The Outsiders, published by Lightning Books in May.

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I was sent a copy of the so-called Super League document earlier today and have spent the afternoon doing some number crunching on it.

A few key takeaways

The plan would guarantee massive income to a 15 club elite and cement financial gaps not only between those competing in the Super league and those not, but within it.

The plan envisages one off payments of up to €350 million to the fifteen founder members, but only six clubs would receive the full amount with five of the initial members receiving just €100 or €112.5 million.

The 15 breakaway clubs have generously deigned to allow 5 merit based qualifiers each season. But the system is totally skewed against them. They have no say in running the Super League and are entirely excluded from a commercial pot worth 15% of income

Moreover, there is an 'equal' share of revenue that is not equal at all. The qualifiers are excluded from half of this pot of money (worth around €1.85 BILLION)

At the same time, the organisers have shown their contempt for rewarding sporting success. You get given a ton of money for playing (about €180m for the group stage), but prize money is quite small - worth perhaps €30m extra for winning it. Which is small change, really

If you win the Champions League, by contrast, you earn about €120million - or 300% more than just making the group stage

At the same time, if, say Leicester or Everton, were to qualify and actually win it - despite everything being skewed against them - they would earn around half the amount Barca or Real would be guaranteed JUST FOR COMPETING IN THE GROUP STAGE

Essentially this has been devised by a cabal of greedy, stupid and desperate individuals who care nothing about football,competitiveness or the sustainability of the game. It will kill domestic football and create a boring spectacle skewed in favour of a Super League 'big 6'

FIFA are completely correct in offering every sanction going, and I hope that at the next Premier League board meeting or ECA gathering the people behind this are treated with the same contempt as they were for the equally risible 'Project Big Picture'

A lot of hysteria because a few fat cats want to get fatter and other fat cats (uefa, fifa, premier league) are up they will not get fatter as well.

Lets be honest aside from Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs. How many other premier league teams have consistently played in the CL for more than 1 season?

zero, so why are they getting butt hurt about the CL teams deciding to play in a close shop league?

its not as if West Ham. palace, wolves made millions from CL football.

As for kicking the 6 teams out of the prem, will the lucrative TV deals be available for the Prem if the highest match will be Everton vs Leeds.


I'm surprised Everton were not offered a place as the Euro league will have the Manchester, London, Milan, RM/AM derbies but the Merseyside derby will die a death.

No matter how money hungry FIFA or UEFA are - they have never presided over closed-shop tournaments where elite clubs play with no system of meritocracy. In the history of football, whether it's the premier league, the Champion's league, the World Cup, any domestic cup tournament, each team gets there on merit. Every professional city team, no matter how lowly, has a chance to rise through the ranks and earn a spot in the top leagues and tournaments. This is a 120 year tradition around most of the world - but this SuperLeague will destroy all that. The fans will suffer, the lower league teams will fold, and tournaments without merit will quickly become sterile and meaningless. I can't believe I have to explain this to people.

It beggar's belief how excruciatingly poor your logic is. West Ham are about to earn a CL spot for the first time in their history - but will be excluded from the superleague in favour of Spurs and Arsenal, who are 7th and 9th respectively. Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest have won more European cups than half the teams 'elected' for the superleage. There is no defence - this is a mockery of sporting competition - and you are delusional in your response (as usual!).

I'm not defending anything, I just find it ironic when one group of fat cats get upset about other fat cats wanting to be greedier.

The so called ethics of the Premier league and groups against this league are 2 faced as well.

Where were they hiding when Bury went under, Bolton went bankrupt etc etc Not a single Premier league owner gave 2 figs.

Laughable now.

False equivalency is laughable. FIFA, UEFA, the Premier League are all deeply flawed institutions but they don't presided over a closed competition where elite teams split the spoils. Also, if you actually do care about the Burys of the world then you would support the current footballing pyramid that exists in most countries, where some money does flow down and all teams can rise up the ranks and compete with the elite.