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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 232
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 232 |
I don't really know a lot about this, and I have largely agreed with points raised so far.
I don't like the idea of positive discrimination or just having a quota etc.
I think all I can add to this is to make sure that everyone has as many doors open to them as possible from all backgrounds, black, white, male, female, poor etc. I think as long as these barriers are lifted when it comes to being interviewed for a manager role I think it is genuinely is the best person for the job.
I don't think Crystal Palace would hire a worse white manager rather than the better black manager just because of colour, or if the best person is female then so what, they want the best person.
I'm kind of swerving towards the Rooney rule, that seems to be a sensible way to go until we reach equal opportunities for all. Seems like a good idea to have 1 BAME/Women interviewed at least just so they have an opportunity to put there ideas across and the board then has an opportunity to see that maybe these people do deserve a go rather then the usual merry go round managers.
I also think we need to encourage more BAME interaction at board level.
For me mainly its just about making sure as many barriers are removed as possible. I don't think any football club should be told who to give the job to. I mean someone has to get the job which means other people have to miss out, at some point everyone is discriminated against for one decision or another it just shouldn't be because of colour.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,746
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,746 |
I think there is also pressure on clubs to keep a manager because he is black. A lot of ex players don't go into management because of the pressures there and a lot of very good footballers don't want the hassle of it all.
You have to truly love the game to become a manager. It is something you do because it is instinctively in you to try and test yourself further as a person.
There have been some very high profile players who have not made it as managers. And some of the names I can give you would have expected to do better especially as they worked as players under the biggest names.
Gary Neville, Paul Ince, Bobby Moore, Bryan Robson, Vincent Kompany, Thierry Henry, John Barnes, Alan Shearer, all worked under top managers but failed pretty badly as managers themselves or found out very quickly that it wasn't for them.
The top managers were not all top players so don't expect the top players to be top managers irrespective of their colour.
Benitez, Wenger, Klopp, Mourinho were not top players in their countries.
Raheem has picked out Lampard & Gerrard v Cole & Campbell. Two recent players v two who retired 10 years ago. What he needs to see is BAME players saying now that they want to go into management instead of listening to another media luvvie Danny Rose. He was asked about life after football and dismissed it as he perceived that he would not be given a chance. It is all too easy to dismiss things and use race as an excuse especially if you have no real desire to go into that profession.
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 232
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 232 |
Raheem has picked out Lampard & Gerrard v Cole & Campbell. Two recent players v two who retired 10 years ago. What he needs to see is BAME players saying now that they want to go into management instead of listening to another media luvvie Danny Rose. He was asked about life after football and dismissed it as he perceived that he would not be given a chance. It is all too easy to dismiss things and use race as an excuse especially if you have no real desire to go into that profession.
Going off topic here but Danny Rose is an absolute helmet of the highest order, nobody should take anything he says seriously but yes if he seriously wants to go into management he should try, no one is going to hand him a job out of pity. For me every time I hear about him from his newspaper quotes it just sounds like his attitude in general stinks. Asked once about footballers taking pay cuts and said something along the lines of I don't know how we are expected to feed our families.
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054 |
Raheem has picked out Lampard & Gerrard v Cole & Campbell. Two recent players v two who retired 10 years ago. What he needs to see is BAME players saying now that they want to go into management instead of listening to another media luvvie Danny Rose. He was asked about life after football and dismissed it as he perceived that he would not be given a chance. It is all too easy to dismiss things and use race as an excuse especially if you have no real desire to go into that profession.
Going off topic here but Danny Rose is an absolute helmet of the highest order, nobody should take anything he says seriously but yes if he seriously wants to go into management he should try, no one is going to hand him a job out of pity. For me every time I hear about him from his newspaper quotes it just sounds like his attitude in general stinks. Asked once about footballers taking pay cuts and said something along the lines of I don't know how we are expected to feed our families. The problem with someone like Rose is he might struggle to get a management job, as if you read his past quotes/opinions, any decent CEO would steer well clear, but he would probably raise his lack of opportunities based on the colour of his skin, which is wrong, it's because he's a bellend who has said stupid stuff and attitude 'appears' to stink.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,746
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,746 |
Raheem has picked out Lampard & Gerrard v Cole & Campbell. Two recent players v two who retired 10 years ago. What he needs to see is BAME players saying now that they want to go into management instead of listening to another media luvvie Danny Rose. He was asked about life after football and dismissed it as he perceived that he would not be given a chance. It is all too easy to dismiss things and use race as an excuse especially if you have no real desire to go into that profession.
Going off topic here but Danny Rose is an absolute helmet of the highest order, nobody should take anything he says seriously but yes if he seriously wants to go into management he should try, no one is going to hand him a job out of pity. For me every time I hear about him from his newspaper quotes it just sounds like his attitude in general stinks. Asked once about footballers taking pay cuts and said something along the lines of I don't know how we are expected to feed our families. The problem with someone like Rose is he might struggle to get a management job, as if you read his past quotes/opinions, any decent CEO would steer well clear, but he would probably raise his lack of opportunities based on the colour of his skin, which is wrong, it's because he's a bellend who has said stupid stuff and attitude 'appears' to stink. Yeah this was what I was trying to get at without trying to sound too negative about any individual. A lot of players like TV pundit work or want to go off and write a book. It is difficult to play both sides of the coin with this on one side and football management and coaching on the other. Gerrard is not a great pundit but he appears to be making a decent manager. I think players have to be careful about what they disclose when taking on a pundit role as it could ruin the way they would be perceived to act as a manager. There are plenty of BAME representatives within the pundits we see in TV each week. I can't quite remember us seeing a BAME football commentator. Robbie Earle has done work for NBC but although we have BAME representatives anchoring TV programmes and we have BAME journalists, the role of manager is not as rare as a BAME football commentator.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542 |
I literally can't believe posters on Koptalk are discussing rules enforcing football clubs to hire managers based purely on the colour of their skin. You guys are so woke. How could you possibly enforce it and why has Raheem Sterling become our source of moral virtue?
This is all getting way out of control just as one of the most diverse countries in the world with unprecedented equality of opportunity regardless of race, sex etc seemed like it was 'there', we seem intent on taking several steps back. I suspect it's to fuel the industries these fallacies have created but more so to keep everyone divided by talking about differences more than ever before in history.
How would you police it and how would it help? What if a black manager is awful at his job, should we prevent him being fired? How about Asian managers, what percentage of the population do we have? Women managers - 50% should be women? What about disabilities or maybe Ageism. Is there an age group that's being clearly discriminated against? What's the hierachy of oppression we're following and who makes these rules?
As someone stated, if black footballers represent a higher portion of players than population, are we right to insist we need more white players? It's an impossible aim even if the goal is noble because nothing can ever be 100% equal.
Why are film stars and footballers telling us what unjust societies we live in? It seems the narrative of the white patriarchy is winning out and as we've seen recently, it doesn't end well. Next we'll be trying to re-write history by removing classic films and forming mobs to tear down statues of 300 year old slave traders and throwing them in the sea... That'll change our wretched ways.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,936
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,936 |
The aim/narrative: societal breakdown/collapse
The forced cure: More Government...NWO
...if a worldwide pandemic doesn't quite do it, a dash of a good ol' race war on top, will do it!
There is so many untruths about both situations being manipulated and twisted by those with most to gain.
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054 |
Sadly, there does seem to be lots of manipulation going on here, lots of righteous celebrities telling us all how we should feel and behave from their ivory towers, big brand companies like Netflix jumping on the band wagon to be cleaner than clean, Councils looking to jump on the right on band wagon.
Unfortunately I expect this to calm down in the next few weeks when a new spike in Covid comes or the next big headline, and we will be back to square one, every year there is a scandal with the US police killing someone, Baltimore was a few years ago and that was going to change everything ...... I guess the governments are also happy with the distraction on how they are managing the pandemic.....
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
I literally can't believe posters on Koptalk are discussing rules enforcing football clubs to hire managers based purely on the colour of their skin. You guys are so woke. How could you possibly enforce it and why has Raheem Sterling become our source of moral virtue?
This is all getting way out of control just as one of the most diverse countries in the world with unprecedented equality of opportunity regardless of race, sex etc seemed like it was 'there', we seem intent on taking several steps back. I suspect it's to fuel the industries these fallacies have created but more so to keep everyone divided by talking about differences more than ever before in history.
How would you police it and how would it help? What if a black manager is awful at his job, should we prevent him being fired? How about Asian managers, what percentage of the population do we have? Women managers - 50% should be women? What about disabilities or maybe Ageism. Is there an age group that's being clearly discriminated against? What's the hierachy of oppression we're following and who makes these rules?
As someone stated, if black footballers represent a higher portion of players than population, are we right to insist we need more white players? It's an impossible aim even if the goal is noble because nothing can ever be 100% equal.
Why are film stars and footballers telling us what unjust societies we live in? It seems the narrative of the white patriarchy is winning out and as we've seen recently, it doesn't end well. Next we'll be trying to re-write history by removing classic films and forming mobs to tear down statues of 300 year old slave traders and throwing them in the sea... That'll change our wretched ways. Agreed, except the last part, why should anybody be happy to keep statues of slave traders, unless it's well written that they were slave traders, no?
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542 |
I just think it's not only wrong to form mobs, tear down statues and dump them in the sea, but also to want to re-write history or hide it.
Sounds a little idealistic but we can educate people with knowledge and history, show children these statues and explain why their actions were so wrong. As we're now seeing with old tweets and worst still, TV shows and films being seen as 'outdated' (Gone with the Wind ffs..), social norms change all the times so who gets to decide what's accepted and how far back do we go? How can someone be comdemned for using a derogatory term that was accepted when they said it and why are people so confident that they've finally got things right now?
I know that's a little off key on the statues thing, but people can't learn from history if they tear it down.
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