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Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am capable of expressing a concept using my own judgement rightly or wrongly

Sadly some are incapable of that

One thing I have learnt though in this exchange I have wondered, in the past, how rational people in modern times can be involved in sectarianism which to me seems a mindless pursuit. I now think I have more understanding of how this occurs. So shaggy thanks for that insight


So you can't defend your own position so you try to change the subject.

It's tough being a brexiteers these days.


That's typical of your answers just one line jibes nothing of substance


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Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am capable of expressing a concept using my own judgement rightly or wrongly

Sadly some are incapable of that

One thing I have learnt though in this exchange I have wondered, in the past, how rational people in modern times can be involved in sectarianism which to me seems a mindless pursuit. I now think I have more understanding of how this occurs. So shaggy thanks for that insight


So you can't defend your own position so you try to change the subject.

It's tough being a brexiteers these days.


That's typical of your answers just one line jibes nothing of substance


And still no explanation of your current position on Brexit. Granted it may change again tomorrow.

But right now you are happy to support a deal that you hate. Not a lot of substance there.

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Shaggy I live in the real world brexit was never going to be good or bad from a brexiteers arrangement I said that from day one and have stated my red lines. My red lines are looking shakey on the customs union I agree but I can still accept chequers just at the moment. That probably has the best chance of getting an agreement with the EU and getting past parliment. But Canada plus and no deal I could live with too. I am not going to get exactly what I want I am grown up enough to accept that. But it very much looks like brexit is on track the Tory rebels seem to be withdrawing and the "have another vote brigade" are nowhere.


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Dominic Rabb announced to the select committee this afternoon that he would be happy to appear before them on 21st November after a (Brexit) deal is finalised.

Three hours afterwards the same Dominic Rabb announced there was NO SET DATE for the negotiations to conclude.

And this man is part of the Brexit negotiating team. Come back David Davis all is forgiven.

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Rumours circulating in irish media is that as soon as May gets her budget through she is going to offer the crash out or all uk in custom union options to parliament.

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I have no idea what's going on but I read online and offline newspapers that are for and against brexit and I watch every BBC political programme every day. I am interested in politics rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly I should have better things to do it's all bollox. However my gut feel is we are at the end game for brexit now. As expected the negotiations have not been for the benefit of the people (politicans rarely do that) but a game a theatre. But now that theatre is running out of time so I expect both sides now to sit down and agree the deal they were always going to agree. It goes without saying it will be at the 12th hour. Then we will see the smiles and the backslapping from both sides. My expectations are more theatre from parliment but they will pass it particularly as it's now been confirmed they have no power to extend article 50 or force the government to carry on negotiating so if they vote it down they are voting for no deal however there are Tory brexiteers who want that so it could be tight. Once we have been through that then I expect things will go on pretty much as usual we still await the sky falling in the remoaners predicted after the vote. One point to note the OBR (office of budget responsibility) are predicting an increase in UK growth next year deal or no deal. You won't see that in the guardian newspaper or sky news remain promoters but that's what they are saying. The OBR tradiionally take the pessimistic view so growth might be higher still. In another world politcians would have respected the result of the referendum and all worked together to achieve the best result for the people and done it quickly. But we don't live in that world


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Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I have no idea what's going on but I read online and offline newspapers that are for and against brexit and I watch every BBC political programme every day. I am interested in politics rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly I should have better things to do it's all bollox. However my gut feel is we are at the end game for brexit now. As expected the negotiations have not been for the benefit of the people (politicans rarely do that) but a game a theatre. But now that theatre is running out of time so I expect both sides now to sit down and agree the deal they were always going to agree. It goes without saying it will be at the 12th hour. Then we will see the smiles and the backslapping from both sides. My expectations are more theatre from parliment but they will pass it particularly as it's now been confirmed they have no power to extend article 50 or force the government to carry on negotiating so if they vote it down they are voting for no deal however there are Tory brexiteers who want that so it could be tight. Once we have been through that then I expect things will go on pretty much as usual we still await the sky falling in the remoaners predicted after the vote. One point to note the OBR (office of budget responsibility) are predicting an increase in UK growth next year deal or no deal. You won't see that in the guardian newspaper or sky news remain promoters but that's what they are saying. The OBR tradiionally take the pessimistic view so growth might be higher still. In another world politcians would have respected the result of the referendum and all worked together to achieve the best result for the people and done it quickly. But we don't live in that world


https://www.ft.com/content/e0ae58a6-cf95-11e7-9dbb-291a884dd8c6

Not sure where you got your OBR info Stan, but this paints an entirely different picture.

After Brexit even with an agreement everything will have changed utterly. If the Tory brexiteers scupper a deal, triggering a No Deal Brexit then the "fun" will really begin.

Still no progress on the border issue either, even at this late stage. That of course will all change once we reach squeaky bum time. But I would imagine more British concessions are on the way once the budget is passed.

Interesting times.

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its gonna be that in but not in thing, perfect for ireland..move on

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Shaggy the financial times is very pro remain I got the OBR information from the chancellors budget this week which I watched all the way through. The OBR is meant to be an indepenant body that the treasury follows it was set up to stop chancellors setting budgets on guesses for political reasons. The OBR tends to be cautious so actual growth will likely be higher.


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