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Joined: Nov 2011
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
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He's utterly unlikeable. I hated Fergie too and he was vicious at times, but even LFC fans grudgingly respect his acheivements. Jose spunks as much money as possible, and meltsdown as soon as things start to turn, then quits/gets sacked and blames everyone else. He's obsessed with himself and doesn't care one bit about the teams or players he manages. Creating a global brand and over-hauling LFC's titles on one hand, smash and grab on the other. Him and Fergie are uncomparable.
As above, he's a child at the best of times. I do wonder what he's like in private.. Mourinho could never build and sustain a top football club, that's why he only ever manages clubs for 3 seasons at a time. He buys trophies, sure, (Porto the exception) and eventually the players, fans and board get utterly sick of him. Mourinho could never have brought Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, the Neville's through like Fergie did, he doesn't have the patience or the ability. He has to buy world renowned stars for huge money, then wants more money for new stars when they flop in his tactical system. Look how much Pogba is struggling, look at the decline in Sanchez since going there, he was better under Arsene Wenger! The two best players in the Premiership this season are Salah and De Bruyne, Mourinho had both of these at Chelsea but gave up on them because he couldn't bring them through, look at them now. Man Utd's top goal scorer is Lukaku, he cost £75million, another player Mourinho had and couldn't develop, so he sold him and then bought him when he was closer to being the finished article. He moans about managers over celebrating, yet remember him at Old Trafford with Porto, running down the touchline, or Chelsea at Anfield, running down the touchline. The guy is a total hypocrite, his style of football is prehistoric and this season he hasn't been able to buy his way to success like he normally does. Guardiola is too good for him, maybe that's why he's even more of a bitter, moaning old man than usual this season. Excatly right. It's a shame he's acheived what he has, Inter and Porto being standout. He'll never build a legacy anywhere and seems to thrive on being hated. Maybe deeply insecure boarding on insane paranoia. Bemoaning City's spending is laughable but at least many of the talents he's had at his disposal are coming good. Only Jose could buy one of the worlds best midfielders then isolate him after a few months.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Aug 2011
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I HATED Ferguson, but comparing Mourinho to him is disgraceful. He's arguably the best to ever manage in England, and the Dynasty he built there is unmatched. He definitely had a nasty streak about him, and Keane and Beckham have a fair amount to say about his lack of loyalty. He had his mind games with Wenger and Rafa too, and the way he treated referees was terrible, but there was a certain level of class and respect for the game that he had that Mourinho lacked. I hate Ferguson, but I respect him. If I were a United fan, I would love him.
I acknowledge what Mourinho has done in the game is impressive, but he has become such a petulant child. It used to be sort of charming. He was a character, and his players used to run through brick walls for him at Chelsea, but Madrid broke him. He's got so much insecurity, such an inferiority complex. If I was a United fan, I would be so embarrassed by him, and the lecturing of THAT club about football heritage of all things is absurd.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
I HATED Ferguson, but comparing Mourinho to him is disgraceful. He's arguably the best to ever manage in England, and the Dynasty he built there is unmatched. He definitely had a nasty streak about him, and Keane and Beckham have a fair amount to say about his lack of loyalty. He had his mind games with Wenger and Rafa too, and the way he treated referees was terrible, but there was a certain level of class and respect for the game that he had that Mourinho lacked. I hate Ferguson, but I respect him. If I were a United fan, I would love him.
I acknowledge what Mourinho has done in the game is impressive, but he has become such a petulant child. It used to be sort of charming. He was a character, and his players used to run through brick walls for him at Chelsea, but Madrid broke him. He's got so much insecurity, such an inferiority complex. If I was a United fan, I would be so embarrassed by him, and the lecturing of THAT club about football heritage of all things is absurd. I won't say it's Madrid who broke him but Pep. He has such a big ego that he wants to be considered the best in the world but, unfortunately for him, Pep is considered number 1. He just cannot live with that. All his recent rants were on City, ie, they spend too much, they have been better than Manure when he was talking of heritage etc. Let's face it, without Pep this season he would probably have won the league.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279 |
I have to disagree with some of the opinions about Fergie.
I don't understand how we can acknowledge that the way he treated referees was terrible and then immediately follow that with a claim that he had respect for the game, though I suppose it was qualified by ' a certian level'. Far too low a level to qualify as respect in my opinion.
He hasn't built 'a dynasty' at all. He left the club in need of a rebuild job which so far they haven't succeeded in achieving. He didn't develop/mentor any undertudies that were able to continue the work. This is in stark contrast to Shankly who built a loyal team around him and was able to lay a foundation and pass on priciples which Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish, Moran and Evans were able to carry forward.
Somebody also mentioned that Fergie esablished a global brand. I disagree with that too. Manchester United were a global brand for years before Fergie. Even when we were winning things, I believe they were still the 'bigger' club financially. It was the Sky revolution and the establishment of the PL that was the game changer. That allowed them to take full advantage of their financial might and even increase it. Of course Fergie's management contributed - but to a certain extent, he was in the right place at the right time.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
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swapshop
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Just think football has changed since Shanks dynasty building days...it's never going to happen now....Posters saying Sir Alex never left any foundations...well did Cloughie...Don Revie or Sir Matt? Are we now saying they weren't top managers because they never left dynasty's...
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054
1st Team Squad
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Joined: Mar 2016
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Man Utd were always a big club, Fergy was there when the kept extending the ground (the main income back then), they were lucky that they achieved success in the early 90's just as the PL started and the game was going global with the new media Satellite companies, so they profited from that the most, Fergy made them an excellent team, rebuilt several teams, but he had no real control/input over how the brand grew, in the 80's & 90's they were averaging gates around 40,000, if the same would have happened 10 years earlier, it would have been us on the tidal wave.
It's like us, FSG bought us for about £300 million, we have heard of bids of £1+ billion recently, FSG haven't really done much to increase our value, they have improved our business etc, our value has increased as all clubs have increased based on demand and the media deals that are generating large income, plus lots of very rich people/countries fancy adding a football club to their collection now.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
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Just think football has changed since Shanks dynasty building days...it's never going to happen now....Posters saying Sir Alex never left any foundations...well did Cloughie...Don Revie or Sir Matt? Are we now saying they weren't top managers because they never left dynasty's... No. I was just disagreeing with views that Fergie built a dynasty and that he built the Manchester United brand. Never said anything about him not being a top manager. However, if you started to compare managers and the criteria was not a simple trophy count then you might take into account things like what they started with and the legacies they left.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Aug 2011
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I have to disagree with some of the opinions about Fergie.
I don't understand how we can acknowledge that the way he treated referees was terrible and then immediately follow that with a claim that he had respect for the game, though I suppose it was qualified by ' a certian level'. Far too low a level to qualify as respect in my opinion.
He hasn't built 'a dynasty' at all. He left the club in need of a rebuild job which so far they haven't succeeded in achieving. He didn't develop/mentor any undertudies that were able to continue the work. This is in stark contrast to Shankly who built a loyal team around him and was able to lay a foundation and pass on priciples which Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish, Moran and Evans were able to carry forward.
Somebody also mentioned that Fergie esablished a global brand. I disagree with that too. Manchester United were a global brand for years before Fergie. Even when we were winning things, I believe they were still the 'bigger' club financially. It was the Sky revolution and the establishment of the PL that was the game changer. That allowed them to take full advantage of their financial might and even increase it. Of course Fergie's management contributed - but to a certain extent, he was in the right place at the right time. He was at the club for 27 years, which is almost as long as the Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, and Dalglish years all rolled together. He won 13 league titles, 5 FA cups, 2 Champions Leagues, 4 league cups, a cup winners cup and loads of other stuff (38 trophies in 27 years). He knocked us off out perch and oversaw one of the most impressive production lines of young local talent, many of whom are among the greatest to ever play for United or England. To me, that is a dynasty, as much as it sticks in my throat. I still say Paisley is the greatest to ever manage in England period, but there is definitely an argument to be made for Ferguson. The legacy he has had on nurturing players (many of whom became managers), the innovation, and the fact that he was able to stay on top throughout the cycles of so many other great managers of the league (Dalglish, Clough, Wenger, Mourinho, Benitez) is incredibly impressive. And despite his spats with many of them, there is a level of respect with which he speaks of them and vice versa that I see that I don't see with Mourinho. Fergie was a [oops], but Jose isn't fit to wipe his boots.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
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He was at the club for 27 years, which is almost as long as the Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, and Dalglish years all rolled together. He won 13 league titles, 5 FA cups, 2 Champions Leagues, 4 league cups, a cup winners cup and loads of other stuff (38 trophies in 27 years). He knocked us off out perch and oversaw one of the most impressive production lines of young local talent, many of whom are among the greatest to ever play for United or England. To me, that is a dynasty, as much as it sticks in my throat.
I still say Paisley is the greatest to ever manage in England period, but there is definitely an argument to be made for Ferguson. The legacy he has had on nurturing players (many of whom became managers), the innovation, and the fact that he was able to stay on top throughout the cycles of so many other great managers of the league (Dalglish, Clough, Wenger, Mourinho, Benitez) is incredibly impressive. And despite his spats with many of them, there is a level of respect with which he speaks of them and vice versa that I see that I don't see with Mourinho. Fergie was a [oops], but Jose isn't fit to wipe his boots. Maybe we just have a different interpretation of the word dynasty. What you've described is still not a dynasty to me. 'He knocked us off our perch'. Nonsense. You've fallen for the myth that he himself has probably peddled through the media. We had already faded before he won his first title. In fact, two other teams won the league after our last title and before their first one. 'Production line of young local talent'. Really? There was one batch. He only 'respected' other managers when they weren't a threat. Whenever they were a threat he was very disrespectful and used his friends at other clubs and probably in the media too to put the boot in as well. 27 years at the richest club in the country and perhaps the biggest club in the world.... and only 2 champions league titles. Of course, in terms of the league and domestic trophies he served himself and his club very well. But in my opinion he was just like Mourinho... just smarter and more sly in the way he went about it.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,387
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2010
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Can't be ar5ed reading the whole thread (I know, how rude) but that clip of Maureen is very, very good. It's 15 minutes of reminding everyone how [oops] United are and he's not a miracle worker. As much as he's a pr1ck, he's still won more silverware with United in 1 season than we have in over 10 years.
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