KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Expecting so much. Trying so hard. Underwhelming.

Signing a lot of players in one window seldom or never works. Remember we were total and utter dog [oops] when Klopp took over,so he is starting from a very low point. It may take another 18 months for him to make us competitive, but whilst he's trying there are at least another four clubs who are richer and more established than us also wanting to become stronger. It's a tough job for so many reasons,but we look like we're heading in the right direction. Klopp seems to be going for the quality over quantity approach and slowly he is building a very good team,plenty of reasons for us to be hopeful and positive just need a bit more patience with this manager and less post mortems in September.

what makes you think we are moving in the right direction, are you saying the problems of the defence are getting better now, do you think we are a better team than last season....

At worst, we'll be sixth in the league (should West Brom work wonders on Arsenal) at the end of this weekend of fixtures. While the win consigned the critics to less pessimistic articles, the truth of the matter is underlined by our current expectation levels and the confidence in the team. We're not quite good enough, and we all know it.

Now, that is not to say that we can't over-achieve and pull off something special this year, and similarly under-perform and finish outside of the top six, but the reality is that we need to turn our high-quality periods of play into goals, and our moments of poor judgement into something other than goals conceded. As mentioned on the Anfield Wrap not long ago, we expect so much of every one of our players, when other teams are being successful not expecting so much.

The point I want to make is that usually the strengths and weaknesses of every team in the league are readily apparent, with or without the use of statistics. We know that we're seemingly lacking ruthlessness in front of goal, we're seemingly brittle when under sustained pressure, and we're seemingly mistake-ridden when we need to be quick-minded at the back.

On paper, this is obvious. With eyes, this is obvious. So why are we still continuing with the same flaws, two years into Klopps reign, and with money that he has had to spend? It is not that it is all on Klopp, or the club, or on the coaches, or even on the players, it is definitely a shared responsibility, but we, as fans, continue to see the problems and continue to be frustrated that other teams are able to identify and fix weaknesses, yet ourselves, not unlike Arsenal and Spurs I might add, seem unable to strengthen where we're clearly not performing.

If you take every squad in the top six, it is crazy that we look at the team, right now, player for player as readily comparable to the best. By that, I don't mean to undermine the progress that we are quick to forget has happened, but we are playing a game of contradictions. When you are a team that wants to be on the front foot, you need a solid base to protect you when they lose the ball and a midfield able to recycle the ball quickly. When you are a team that sits back and wants to counter, you need a very quick inter-changeable front-line, and a midfield able to transition as quickly as possible. When you're a team that is focused on retaining possession, you need a defence astute positionally, and an attack able to break space with decisive movement.

Now we try and play all three, but have fundamental flaws in each situation. We are most successful on the counter, which is why so few teams take the game to us, because our midfield are good at transitioning quickly, and our front-three have a good amount of pace. When we play with possession, our defence has very poor positioning, even when our attack does a good job on the decisive movement front (even if it does become a little predictable at times). On the front foot, our defensive unit is poor losing the ball, and our midfield isn't quite quick enough to recycle the ball consistently.

All this said, when you start picking apart the squad which has been accrued to sustain a challenge on multiple fronts, the first XI just simply isn't worthy of a "top team" yet, because they stagnate under pressure, because they can't break down lesser opposition, and they fall apart when they need to think fast.

Mignolet is not comparable to any keeper in the top six. That's not to say I think he's a bad player, but right now, I'd take every starting keeper from the rest of the teams at the top over him.

While Clyne is solid, and comparable to most of the top teams on paper, Moreno and Robertson on the other flank are either not-defensively proficient, or untested at the very top.

Similarly, while Matip is comparable to some of the leagues best, his partner isn't and would at best be seen as third choice, (even Matip, on paper, could be seen as third choice at a couple of the top sides putting that firmly in context).

There a midfields which are top quality on paper, unfortunately, we're not quite there. Teams like Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City have a strong trio (or more) of players that satisfy the quality needed to challenge for a title. When you consider that Henderson, Wijnaldum and Can are our current midfield three (even if we would all expect Lallana/Coutinho to displace the head of the trio at some point), we're closer to Arsenal than to those top teams. Keita can't join soon enough, but we did just spend a lot of money on both Wijnaldum and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Are they top, top quality? Is it just that with Can as well we're just in possession of a couple of players too similar at the moment, rather than lacking quality? I don't think they're far away... but not close enough on form.

It is only on the wings that we look comparable, if only because between Coutinho, Salah and Mane, we have three very astute attackers able to grab goals and change games.

That all leads me to Firmino, who I think is one of the most under-rated and unselfish players in the league, and that is exactly why I'm going to be incredibly blunt and say... he is not quite a top striker, and likely never will be to be brutally honest. He isn't Aguero, or Lukaku, or Kane, or Costa (for now)... He's in a group that might include Lacazette and Morata at a push, but even then, they are so clinical in front of goal on paper that he isn't quite the finisher we need to win a title.

I say all of this to question our principle of being able to try and do everything. When other managers are under pressure, they play a style of play that protects the team to get them out of a sticky situation. If you're conceding too many you adapt and play a little deeper, if you're not scoring enough you push ten yards further up the field. Klopp is, to his strength and weakness, a stubborn manager who expects his team to do everything, and our improvements in all but our defence are easy to see, but... why do we have to suffer for his stubbornness. Playing someone in the midfield as an anchor could help protect the back-line when we lose possession. So why do we not anticipate that option.

I want the team to succeed, but I fear we're still too many players away from being completely competitive, and that concerns me. I called on the club to make a lot of signings in the summer, and at the moment, the weaknesses are still as obvious now as they were then. We could've done with a striker, we could've done with a defender, we could've done with a keeper, we could've done with a midfielder. Thats an entire core of players that I'd argue are not quite there, and that's not including my opinion that Milner should really have started at left back until Robertson is brought up to speed.

I want to positive but I'm at the point where I'm going into each game expecting less, and while it is early in the season, I fear that's a sign of opportunities missed this summer.

We are definitely moving in a right direction.

Klopp took a team when it is at mid-table and that team cannot beat any top half side for a while before Klopp took charge.

Klopp came and started to introduce and develop some youngsters like Arnold/Woodburn/Gomes and also developed so under-performing players into very good ones (Lallana, Firmino etc.). We used to be not able to score without Daniel Sturridge and Suarez, but now we are a team that can score without Coutihno/mane etc.

We used to keep buying expensive flops every transfer windows. After Klopp came, most of our buyings worth the money (some even can be regarded as a steal, like Mane and Salah)

We finally get back to CL this season, which we could only be able to do once in our last 7 years.

Players used to think we are not a top team any more and rejected to come. Now, players rejected other teams and want to join us and believe in our project and long-term ambitious.

We do not have a good start this year, but it didnt make us a worse team comparing with last season. Look at our team, we have a much better squad depth and more talented group of players than last year. Can you imagine how our team would perform if we played twice a week last season?

People keeps complaining recently and claiming we do not make any improvement in the transfer windows. It seems that defence is our biggest problems in last season, which is definitely not.

Our biggest weakness last season is the lack of squad depth. That was the same defence when we were at the top two last season. We started to struggle not because our defence but because we did not have enough players to cover when Mane gone Africa cup, Coutinho/ Lallana get injured, other players tired. If we have enough to cover them, we would probably still at the top two race in May.

We have improved in squad depth and actually not only squad depth! Our attack looks more promising now.

We have improved in some areas, just not ALL areas.

Klopp definitely saw our weakness and that's why he wants to introduce VVD and Keita. We failed to get them this season and Klopp decide not to rush to have panic buy on alternatives as he viewed it as a long term project.

People somehow are impatient in recent years. Everyone said the team need time to rebuild when Klopp came and a few good results and a few promising attacking moves and then they asked to have the EPL NOW.

We are heading in the right direction and our team is improving. Not a sprint but it is a journey. We must be careful in our moves as we can move slowly in the right direction but we cannot afford to move a big step in the wrong one.

Apart from the squad depth, we were not good in versus defence when they are parking bus. It seems to me that we are playing better to break up defence this year.

Klopp sorted two problems in last transfer windows and defence will be the next one.

We need to be patient.

Don't we need cover at the back? Yes we needed cover for Mane, this is why we bought Salah, yes we needed a proper LB instead of Milner, this is why we bought Robertson, but reverted to playing Moreno. We were very thin in defence and had to play Lucas a number of times who has been sold, why haven't we therefore bought a defender, we need one not only for cover but first team. There was absolutely no need to buy Ox especially for that fee, who is he covering?

Your comment mentioned the progress of top six teams and actually it explaint entirely the situation.

Citeh/Scum/Chelsea
These three teams are billionaires and they wont give a shxt on spending. They can buy three expensive flops and realise it and then turn to another 100million player without giving a shxt. They can put some players earning 300K a week into bench or even reserves and no one would complain. They can put their best striker who worth over 50M into reserves and buy another one with over 50M to replace him if they want.
That is why they can do a quick fix on their weakness.

Spurs/Arsenal
We are more comparable to Spurs and Arsenal in terms of operating style and financial status. It is not that we do not have money, it is the fact that we care about the money we spent. We cannot afford to spend a lot to expensive flops. Our owners want results as well as breakeven the books. It is more difficult to us.
We still want to fix our weakness but we need to spend wisely. That's why it normally takes time for us to fix weakness.