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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,460
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,460 |
so defence cant be blamed then. we got a tough fixture.
Steven Gerrard: Heartbeat of LFC.
football is fuckingg cruel
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 462
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 462 |
No I am not new to modern football and rotating goalkeepers and central defenders is not new to modern football but to Klopp, especially when you have no depth of central defenders. As you said yourself, the only partnership that seemed to be working at the end of the season is being changed by using a stop gap bought to replace Kolo who was close to retirement and a young kid who never played regularly in that position. If he wanted to rotate he should have bought 2 or at least 1 CB at least of the level of Matip. What he is doing with the defence is not modern football but mad football. I didn't know that goalkeepers need to be rotated so early in the season, who does that Real Madrid, Juve, Bayern, you tell me? The rotation of GK probably is a deal with Karius and Ward to keep them patient here. I dont think any of our goals conceded are the fault of GK. Both of them did well when they got their chances. (FYI, Scum did rotate the GK and a few other teams also used different GK in different competition. Say, BM normally would give chances to the 2nd choice GK in German cup) For the CB, I agree normally there are no urgent needs to rotate. The rotation looks fine on Crystal Palace game but it costed us the game when versus Citeh. However, you also mentioned full backs in your earlier post. What my response for rotation mainly to the full backs. You needs to rotate full back if you play twice a week as they are the one who always run a lot. Ward should have been loaned out and this Karius/Mignolet situation is a bit of a joke though I understand that Karius was promised number 1 spot but delivered poorly last season. Looks like we agree at least on the CB position. Yeah, I dont agree on rotation on CB too. Actually I think Matip + Lovern is quite solid. (Just check their previous records, their partnership only let go 0.8 goal per game. The ratio is actually quite promising.) For Karius, I like this lad. I have watched him in Mainz, he is one of my favourite in bundesliga. It is always tough to come to EPL and need time to adapt the style of it (look at De Gea). He played in league cup last season and his performance is fine with a couple of saves from one on one situation. I wont write him off yet and I still believe Simon Mignolet will be shipped out once Karius or Ward developed. Look at how Karius and Ward come out of the line to act as sweeper. This is the style that fit us and modern football. Karius looked a but nerved when he had the ball against Arsenal. This could be fixed easily. He fixed it and performed quite well against Sevilla. Looked confident when claiming crosses, made quick decisions on passes and throws.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
No I am not new to modern football and rotating goalkeepers and central defenders is not new to modern football but to Klopp, especially when you have no depth of central defenders. As you said yourself, the only partnership that seemed to be working at the end of the season is being changed by using a stop gap bought to replace Kolo who was close to retirement and a young kid who never played regularly in that position. If he wanted to rotate he should have bought 2 or at least 1 CB at least of the level of Matip. What he is doing with the defence is not modern football but mad football. I didn't know that goalkeepers need to be rotated so early in the season, who does that Real Madrid, Juve, Bayern, you tell me? The rotation of GK probably is a deal with Karius and Ward to keep them patient here. I dont think any of our goals conceded are the fault of GK. Both of them did well when they got their chances. (FYI, Scum did rotate the GK and a few other teams also used different GK in different competition. Say, BM normally would give chances to the 2nd choice GK in German cup) For the CB, I agree normally there are no urgent needs to rotate. The rotation looks fine on Crystal Palace game but it costed us the game when versus Citeh. However, you also mentioned full backs in your earlier post. What my response for rotation mainly to the full backs. You needs to rotate full back if you play twice a week as they are the one who always run a lot. Ward should have been loaned out and this Karius/Mignolet situation is a bit of a joke though I understand that Karius was promised number 1 spot but delivered poorly last season. Looks like we agree at least on the CB position. Yeah, I dont agree on rotation on CB too. Actually I think Matip + Lovern is quite solid. (Just check their previous records, their partnership only let go 0.8 goal per game. The ratio is actually quite promising.) For Karius, I like this lad. I have watched him in Mainz, he is one of my favourite in bundesliga. It is always tough to come to EPL and need time to adapt the style of it (look at De Gea). He played in league cup last season and his performance is fine with a couple of saves from one on one situation. I wont write him off yet and I still believe Simon Mignolet will be shipped out once Karius or Ward developed. Look at how Karius and Ward come out of the line to act as sweeper. This is the style that fit us and modern football. Karius looked a but nerved when he had the ball against Arsenal. This could be fixed easily. He fixed it and performed quite well against Sevilla. Looked confident when claiming crosses, made quick decisions on passes and throws. Yes Karius is much better than Mignolet at passing but he is worse on both shot stopping and set pieces. I would even say that sometimes he comes off his line too quickly and ends up not winning the ball.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
so defence cant be blamed then. we got a tough fixture. I'm going to blame them anyway as that's what I'm going with this season 
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,088
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,088 |
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 707
Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 707 |
With Klopp this is very much a journey and we aren't at the destination yet. He seems to be trying to implement his methods and acting like he has time and freedom to do so (e.g. waiting for Keita & VVD) rather than take the typical managerial approach which is that every game could be your last. Short term this is causing us some discomfort, but if the aim is to build a successful side long term, and his choices very much seem to be on this path, then I can accept that.
A side like City can buy players for right now. They have the resources and don't need any sort of return on their player to reinvest into the next player. They can spend 55m on a right back then buy another in 3 years time no problem. They can spend £50m on goalkeepers over two seasons. That would be a bit risky for Klopp though. He goes out and spends his budget on say Auba, and he does a Shevchencko (which is possible with all players coming here in their physical decline), then we still win nothing, have little to nothing back from Auba and need another 70m to replace him next season. That is just for one position. You can see how soon that approach would start causing us some problems. We are the 4th richest team in our league and Klopp's starting position was with, at best, the 6th best squad, so he cannot afford many big transfer market mistakes.
I think the general view of the fanbase at the moment is we are all so desperate to win the league, we all want to see this short term approach. We have no patience to enjoy the journey and instead are sitting asking "Why aren't we there yet" "If only we had taken that shortcut" etc. I was a kid when we last won the league. I don't remember it, I didn't understand the significance of it at the time. I had a taste of that feeling in 2005 with Rafa and want more like that. If I believe the manager will take me to that place again, I'll wait as long as it takes him to do so.
"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are." - Bill Shankly
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
With Klopp this is very much a journey and we aren't at the destination yet. He seems to be trying to implement his methods and acting like he has time and freedom to do so (e.g. waiting for Keita & VVD) rather than take the typical managerial approach which is that every game could be your last. Short term this is causing us some discomfort, but if the aim is to build a successful side long term, and his choices very much seem to be on this path, then I can accept that.
A side like City can buy players for right now. They have the resources and don't need any sort of return on their player to reinvest into the next player. They can spend 55m on a right back then buy another in 3 years time no problem. They can spend £50m on goalkeepers over two seasons. That would be a bit risky for Klopp though. He goes out and spends his budget on say Auba, and he does a Shevchencko (which is possible with all players coming here in their physical decline), then we still win nothing, have little to nothing back from Auba and need another 70m to replace him next season. That is just for one position. You can see how soon that approach would start causing us some problems. We are the 4th richest team in our league and Klopp's starting position was with, at best, the 6th best squad, so he cannot afford many big transfer market mistakes.
I think the general view of the fanbase at the moment is we are all so desperate to win the league, we all want to see this short term approach. We have no patience to enjoy the journey and instead are sitting asking "Why aren't we there yet" "If only we had taken that shortcut" etc. I was a kid when we last won the league. I don't remember it, I didn't understand the significance of it at the time. I had a taste of that feeling in 2005 with Rafa and want more like that. If I believe the manager will take me to that place again, I'll wait as long as it takes him to do so. It's ok for it to be a journey but not being able to sort out the defensive play after 2 seasons is worrying. As him I am also sick to concede stupid goals
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,159
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,159 |
Good post Barr. Not sure where we stand as a club. When I see City and Chelsea and their endless pit of money and they still can't dominate like we used to. we may "Leicester " it and win a premier league title, but I can't see us ever dominating in the current climate, and it's more to do with how money has changed the game as opposed to FSG or Klopp or whoever is in charge.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
Yeah but we still should've bought a CB.
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giorgiomoroder
Unregistered
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giorgiomoroder
Unregistered
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Think we are in a bit of a catch 22 situation for every good player we sign we will also end up losing one, can see Keita coming next season, can see Coutinho leaving, VVD might well come but can deffo see Mane leaving in next two seasons. I just think when there are bigger predatory clubs around they will always prey on your better players I don't think we can complain too much tho because we used the exact situation to our own gains when we were a top Club...
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