KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum It's official Klopp is clueless

The last stab of the defeated: abuse.

Defeated? Hmmm. Are you Trump?

The aim of defending is to limit space, time on the ball, or both.

So if you think of how we typically defend, we are high up the pitch, attacks break down, we are exposed to balls over the top. We cannot limit that space, we have to play a high line. Therefore immediately we must limit time on the ball. So we counter-press. This prevents people picking us off while the side transitions into the defensive shape. If key defensive players are part of the press (e.g. Moreno / Henderson / TAA / Gini) then players further forward drop into their positions leaving them free to press without worry of their position. So when you see Henderson pressing the goalkeeper, for example, he isn't leaving us exposed as it's rehearsed in training. The #8 runner drops in (e.g. Can) and Firmino drops in as the #8. Henderson is now striker until he can get back into his proper shape.

However, when you press like that, you are actually opening up even more space. If a side can break the line of your press then you are effectively wide open. Which is why sides have relatively few attacks against us, but the ones they do have matter.

When we actually transition to our defensive phase (see early against Arsenal, or the Bayern game) - we are controlling the space usually in a medium block with a low midfield press - which just means we aim to compress the side vertically & horizontally with a highish line and engage when sides enter our half. We clog the center and open the wide areas, usually on the left, and invite them to attack there. We then use the depth of our midfield to press from multiple angles against the line of the pitch (which acts as an extra defender(s) when pressing). This is our main pressing trap as all our more aggressive, explosive players are on that side of the pitch (Moreno, Lovren, Hendo, Gini, Mane). The aim here is to win the ball and launch counters. Firmino is positioned outside the press to receive the ball and release Salah.

A low block - best example is perhaps Atletico - is a low defensive line, only engage close to goal. Aim to limit space but often allowing players time on the ball. The problems with low block is that you are allowing sides time on the ball, which means possession will tank. Also against better players - e.g. Barca/Man City - you get torn to shreads anyway as they have plenty of players capable of playing in tight spaces and picking you apart. So until the emergence of Isco for Madrid, they tended to struggle more than Barca against Atletico as their attackers tended to thrive when they had space to attack (Benzema, Bale, Ronaldo) whereas Barcas players all thrive in tight spaces (Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Neymar, Suarez).

The most impressive thing about Atletico though, more than any other low block side, is they manage to limit the number of shots have and how often they even enter the box with the ball. This is quite unique for a side defending as they are and why Simeone is rightly hailed for his approach, even if he is a boring, bus parking, shithouse

Last season, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City allowed the fewest shots per game on average. However, the value of those shots were also the highest on average. Spurs and Liverpool's numbers were almost identical. We allowed marginally less shots, but they were marginally higher value.

The common problem with high pressing teams is it becomes Plan A, then the only real plan you can implement. You cannot play a low block with the same players. They lack the physical attributes to thrive and face the number of crosses that setup invites. So the best pressing sides ends up being a team of highly agile midgets who act like a swarm of bees or pack of dogs. But dogs are famously poor at heading the ball so...

Which makes it hard to dig in and see out games with that system. It means, taking individual games in isolation, there was always games where it wouldn't work. And it was always said Barca, Spain, etc had been found out. That they need proper defensive players in there. They will always be vulnerable to set pieces etc. And that is true, but it's a consequence of having a Plan A that can blow any side away - which they did and both sides dominated for a period of time. The more you try to create a hybrid system that is good at everything, the weaker than plan A becomes. The more big physical players you have in your team, the less effective you press, the quicker you will tire. You will get "found out" less from a pundits point of view - but you will also struggle to impose your will on sides and when averaged out, be a less effective side in the main.

Really? Have you actually watched the game?

A few fundamental errors were made by TAA this season due to a lack of concentration. A typical one would be the goal against Hoffenfeim. He is not playing his best football recently.

P.S. Those couple of goals against Citeh is actually half of our conceded goals in our last 4 games.

I don't think he should be blamed for the first goal we conceded against City when we had 11 on the pitch, neither the last one. I don't remember all the goals but I think he is responsible for probably 2. That said, it's Klopp who put him in that position, he could have used Milner there. Milner is much more experienced as a full back and bring right footed would have done a better job on the right. Klopp doesn't know what he is doing

Fair enough, as I said before the first goal is the fault of Klavan and not him. (But do you remember TAA made some notable errors during the game even when 11 vs 11? Say, he lacks of concentration made him got a yellow card? Made some slow decision and hesistated for no reasons when the ball is on his feet? Being dribbled past too easily for a few occassions?)

Milner can play as RB for sure. But, for me, I dont want Klopp to put Milner in the RB unless he got no other choices as we have two youngsters who can play as RB.

TAA definitely deserves the chances based on his last season performance. He looks promising and I understand why Klopp would like to put him there as Clyne injured.

Have anyone complaint about TAA before? I dont think so! At least I saw many fans cheering for him after the Hoffenheim game.

What I like about Klopp is how he gives chances to our youngsters and tries to develop them whenever there have chances.

TAA did well last season and showed he is capable to play some big games (like versus Scum last season and versus BM in our pre-season). Klopp has faith in him and the fans love him.

As mentioned in other threads, TAA had some bad games recently and Gomes stepped up now. I would say we can give Gomes some chances as well as he looks pretty solid in some games too.

If both of them dont work and then I think Klopp will make change to put Milner to RB like putting him in LB last year.

I wont write TAA off yet but I suggest if his performance remain like that, we should rest him a few games.

You are the one who said we conceded because of TAA, I would rather say we conceded a lot because Klopp doesn't know how to organise his overall defensive play, he focuses mainly on attack. This is why Moreno had do many games already and TAA as well.

It is not organisation of the defence.

It is lacks of concentration and individual errors cost the goal.

You questioned why TAA was put in RB and I told you because he did it quite well last season and pre-season.

As I told you, our defence looked okay near the end of last season when we have the same CB partnership.

What does that even mean in our context, Klopp has been changing players including defenders every game, how are the defenders even supposed to have what you call partnership? I know you are trying to defend Klopp, but what he has been doing with the defence is obviously not working whatever the reason. If the Matip/Lovren partnership was so good why didn't he continue with it, it is the same for the full backs, sometimes it's Moreno, sometimes Robertson or TAA and Gomez, they will never settle. I wonder how many times we've had the same back 5 in consecutive games. If they have problems concentrating it's only going to be worse, he us really out of his depth there.

Mate, are you new to the modern football world? We are playing in CL this year. Playing twice a week or 3 games in 7 days. Rotation is a must for us.