KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum My theories on VvD, Klopp and FSG.

This is a long peice reading is at your own endeavour , just thought id share my thoughts, please though don't get your hopes up if I'm wrong, this is just my opinion .

This saga has felt like it's taken 2weeks, yet it's only been 5 or so days!, I'm exhausted by it , but some very slim hope, that hope is in the form of Klopp


In a nutshell FSG are [oops], what idiot sacks King Kenny for an unproven young manager in Brendan! , albeit he had a good season but this is King Kenny!, he will resign when he knows it's the time to, never sack him, for that alone has set the tone for FSG since their take over, idiotic, naive and disrespectful to the club.

if their was any way of salvaging their reign it would be , the title challenge , keeping Anfield and Klopp. Still though I feel this is slightly tainted, especially Anfield, everything about it from the removal of the famous "this is Anfield staircase" , the "ticket pricing fiasco" and the reluctance in statements to further increase Anfield based on uncompromising financial investment. These three things slightly taint the concept of keeping Anfield all involve an increased financial investment in which it is obvious they were unwilling to pay, even though those three things would go a long way in preserving and expanding the clubs beautiful history.

In terms of the "this is Anfield" walkway, I wonder if anyone within the club asked to keep this, I wonder because it seems they have everyone's hands tied, how was that not kept one way or another? My theory is if they considered it they were quoted with a higher price and saw it as money wasted, perhaps to some they may feel the same, but it's such an iconic part of Anfield , it's part of tradition to touch that sign it seems crazy to not keep it !.
, even Klopp said that he didn't want his players touching the sign until they win silverware, yet now it's gone! , it's disappointing that they taint our club without valuing its traditions.

The ticket pricing fiasco , such immensely bad PR, it makes me wonder, how much crap are they getting away with "now" , yet because no one is kicking up a fuss, they continue to do so. The positive is they did overturn it, so atleast it may represent that : If fans care enough, they will listen , but then their comments about further Anfield expansion were very upsetting to hear, they had used the walkout as a reason why they are not considering further expansion, so what message now does that say to a fan who loves LFC? stand by your club, but if you do we'll find a way to use it against you!?, one way or another everything that seems good has been tainted which makes me wonder their motives, it was always making profit , and good PR is a bonus for them, that's just how I feel about their motives.

Just to clarify, when you think about our situation after Gillet and Hicks, LFC facing Administration, that type of situation does seem to attract a certain type of owner, and given their statement upon purchasing liverpool, it was quite a soulless blunt statement about a profitable opportunity, I can say that the writing was kind of written on the wall from the beginning, I guess I'm saddened to think such a big club can be reduced to this!, yes they did help balance the books but it seems like a lesser evil, in hindsight would LFC have been better off waiting to be owned by owners who actually are passionate about the club? In a perfect world I guess so , but no use dwelling on it.

Having said that passionate owners don't have to own the club, don't like mentioning the Mancs, but they are the only club in the Prem who has been successful with American owners, the difference? They left everything to Sir Alex, he took control of everything in that club, and even though that kind of power can possibly be bad, example Arsene Wenger, I believe that the fans would gladly allow Klopp full control of LFC the way arsene Wenger controls Arsenal, that means control of who's appointed as director of football etc...

Klopp did stand firm to bring most of his backroom staff with him, which shows FSG were willing to hand him some control, but I think in Klopp's first press conference he made the whole "transfer commitee" questions he was asked , seem so simple, yet I think in hindsight he now realises why the journalists were worried so much over the infamous "transfer commitee" . Klopp is experiencing this first hand now.

Klopp himself I believe is by far the best thing FSG has done for LFC. He gives us hope , he is trying his best to bring this club glory, I do have to say I do tend to cringe when the LFC:TV trivialise Klopp's personality as a marketing tool to expand the fanbase, obviously it's a win-win but I do wonder if the reason they got Klopp was to bring success to the club, or keep the moneyball rolling on whilst making good PR, it's a bit cynical I know,

I'd love to know what happens behind closed doors , and here's
the positive part , I think that Klopp ain't going to allow LFC to suffer the fate set-up by FSG, I think at this point one way or another he's seen enough to realise FSG are not in the clubs best interests . Klopp will challenge FSG, right through to the board and the infamous transfer committee, he will makes sure this club succeeds, it's an unspoken fight he's dealing with, obviously he cannot say anything as whilst employed, but just like with Brendan Rodgers, Klopp is dealing with transfer commitee issues and hopefully he can find a way to win this unspoken fight he has.

Also to clarify I think FSG's views on investment are somewhat skewed, Albiet they are rich, and got rich doing this, but it seems like they are so obsessed with this extremely cautious style of making profit, they are so absorbed within the confines of what their laptop risk-assessor 'Mike Gordon' thinks , that they cannot seem to see the value in a different kind of investment, let's say the likes of what actual success brings .

investment in players, atmosphere, preserving heritage go a long way in establishing the success of the club, the kind of success that the fans want: trophies, and this success will generate profit!, just look again at the Mancs , they preserved the heritage of Old Trafford whilst beefing up its capacity , and have become mega-rich in doing so , yet this profit didn't come from sell-on value , ferguson built his team with a blend of youth, experience and world class talent, he made them money but was perfectly aligned with what the fans wanted : trophies!


This is the type of investment , we as football fans have come to understand as "investment" but it seems this type of player and stadium investment is too risky for FSG, they'd rather stick to "sell-on value" and "corporate seats" to make profit, Using our rich footballing history in vain, a means to turn Anfield into a tourist destination for micro profit, low risk profit.

Anyway back to the positives, this is all still salvageable , because Klopp has our best interests too, he loves the club , and here's where the theory I have about Klopp, VvD and FSG comes into play

Remember this is a theory. In order of presumed events, I'm steady preparing myself to be let down because I'm being very wishful here.

•VvD is a top priority for Klopp, he wants him to captain our team in the hummels role

•I'm not sure if Klopp knew that he was tapping up the player , I guess he is doing whatever to make this club bring in world class talent, can't blame him for that endeavour.

•Like carragher said, why was that information leaked!!! Just ludicrous!

•I truly believe Southampton wouldn't have cared about tapping up , if LFC starting business at offering what they said they'd offer , 60million , but Southampton got angry when LFC tried to use the "leaked info" to drop the price , such so offering Sakho + money, angering Southampton , left them with the easy option to report us, I strongly believe if we offered just money from the beginning , we'd be fine.

•Klopp was infuriated by this lack of transfer ruthlessness, and so as a form of damage limitation , to not jeopardise the club with a potential transfer ban, they all agreed upon a statement , even though it angered many fans, I believe the statement was just said to not allow the premier league to ban them, stating "no further interest" only as PR so they won't be banned, thus preserving their chance of signing VvD later on.

•Even now they have interest in Tadic from Southampton ! He is a good player but for me this is only because Klopp was advised to do this , because I think eventually VvD will hand in a transfer request and LFC will bid 60+ million , and so to stop Southampton from again opening the case of "tapping up" further , LFC can legally be clear of punishment and state the second
attempt to sign VvD is as a separate deal to the first , given their was interest in tadic in between.

•I think also with Salah deal, we see FSG come out with statements that "we won't be bullied by Roma" but Infact it's the opposite! . FSG are trying to bully other teams to lower prices! it's all about moneyball but we are becoming increasingly an unpleasant club to do business with.

They have made rumours of looking at other options as wingers, partly because they want to find players that fit moneyball, and partly as a scare tactic to hopefully lower Roma's asking price ,

•Remember Klopp has first and last say with transfers, so he'll be shown a list of alternative targets to VvD and salah by this transfer commitee .

•But I think Klopp is hard-headed, he knows he's responsible for lots of profit for making top four, he has earnt that profit this season and he wants to spend it his way! And so after all this fluffing around from the transfer commitee suggesting alternatives , Klopp refused these alternatives and eventually the penny has dropped and FSG upped their offer again for salah with installments,

•100% in my view that is Klopp saying "thank you for making me a list of alternatives , but Id rather you increase your offer for salah and VvD"

•Salah has happened now and VvD is far more tactical , it will have to be timed accordingly so LFC can make an offer after a transfer request has come in, probably on July 1st , things may start to progress with VvD.


So hopefully Klopp continues to BULLDOZE his way to bring LFC SUCCESS!!!!

Look at how he sometimes turns to LFC fans and yells at them! This man is so obsessed with brining glory to LFC he will fight his own fans, his own transfer committee and FSG to make sure LFC will go in the correct direction.

Thank you Klopp!!!

Didn't read it all. But some bits. On VVD we thought we were trying to be smart by leaking info to the press. Southampton who knew we were tapping up the player were not happy(who would be happy with the crap press leaks) They then said look if you don't release a public apology then are in trouble. We were owned, they were probably pissing themselves laughing. Major embarrassment for us.


On Salah I get exactly where we are coming from. Roma have to pay money this month to FFP. I think it is roughly 40m they need this month. So why should we not try and bargain down in this case? Forget our transfer record any other club would be doing the same in that position

Well that's all right Paul, if there's no one else interested in Salah, but if he's any good there surely will be so I doubt we have Roma over a barrell or that they can be easily bullied like that. My way of doing business is to respect the seller and the commodity you're buying and set your offer based on your perception of the commodity value, not be a spendthrift or be a miserly haggler, but deal with integrity. I'd be surprised if Roma blink first even if they do have to come up with money for ffp. My money is on FSG blinking first if they want to land Salah, else they're happy to have him plucked from under their noses again, and maybe , just maybe they are!

Some very good points, FSG would not have been interested in us if they weren't getting a good deal when they bought us. Their TRUE colours were unveiled in the Court Case over here...John Henry stating how much of a steal we were in an email that was disclosed in the court case.

I despise this overused excuse that we should be thankful for FSG for saving us. For 7 years we keep getting told by all the apologists how we should doth our cap to FSG and not ever criticise the way they run the club...B.OLLOCKS TO THAT!!! They dismantled the expensive framework and sold it off and got in much less and cheaper framework which has seriously affected our ability to be competitive with the elite clubs. Their "of sorts" moneyball policy is seriously flawed, the idea to bring in cheap potential and cultivate them is immediately f*ucked from the get go because those mentoring, tutoring, coaching the potential are sh*t who have had no succes elsewhere and have been promoted for no f*ucking good reason whatsoever other than they were the cheapest alternative!

FSG have eviscerated fans expectations...top 4 is being heralded like it is a magnificent achievement? go back before they came and Top 4 was bare minimum expectation for a club of our stature.

This season has been an overwhelming dud considering how we started it. The wheels came off end of November going into December and instead of recognising the fact the team was too lightweight on numbers and quality, and address it in the January transfer window, FSG chose to deny the opportunity to. It was almost a carbon copy of the 13/14 season when we came so close to that elusive 1st prem title when adding a couple of quality players could have took us over the finish line. We were in a decent position still going into January transfer window and still in the cup comps, but Mane going to AFCON and Matip ban, Coutinho injury and other injuries to key players put our squad under severe stress that we could not cope with.

FSG have used every sly trick in the book to divert attention in the transfer windows and this coming transfer window looks like it's going to be no different than the rest.

Fans have got to see who FSG truly are...they are caustic to a club like Liverpool FC and it's fans. FSG are never ever to be trusted, they have no affinity to us, their affinity is to their bank balance above all else and until they have gone we become even more insignificant!

Must say I agree, they aren't good for us,
hopefully Klopp can succeed still even with FSG holding the club back.
That or we find a way to protest if we don't get VvD

Sounds to me like Klopp was as much at fault as anyone else in the VVD cock up so he needs to sort himself out too don't you think? A manager of his experience shouldn't be talking directly to a player without permission so how this is all FSG's fault is beyond me?

wilks I said this earlier too. you make it sound like FSG vs Klopp.
lets not forget that Klopp is not running the whole club all alone. And ideally there should be bunch of guys working on the transfers and if it happened Klopp must have been told to do wonders with his charm since owners didnt want to pay silly money.

Good thing is i dont trust everything news or internet say about transfers.

If anything is klopp's fault it would be his assumption that his LFC suits were competent at negotiations, Klopp did what any manager would do, I firmly believe the tactical approach of LFC suits is what angered Southampton , it's got nothing to do with tapping up, unnecessary information being linked to try and bully Southampton to sell to LFC on our terms, we are doing it too with salah but it's not as big a deal because Roma aren't complaining and other teams aren't after him, our Suits are so bad at handling negotiations it's destroying good transfer business relationships with clubs, for LFC's sake, Klopp must now take responsibility that his co-workers are a bunch of clowns.

Heard yesterday from a friend who is a Roma fan that they are trying to sign Forsberg as somekind of replacement for Salad. In his opinion a much better footballer, and for a lot better price too.

Salad can be a good player according to my friend, but disappears often - about as he did at Chelski (when he eventually got some game time).

£ 40 m is a joke for a player like Salad IMO! Why don't we do what we're best at instead: Move on to the next target?

But regardless of what others do, Klopp seemingly met a player without his clubs permission and with his experience he should know better. He's not blameless in all this.