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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
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OP
Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
Who else could he have picked? You're either expecting him to put two up front and change the formation entirely, or you're asking him to risk players coming back from injury...
As for pace and invention, the manager can't exactly make the players play quicker from the touchline other than shout at players to do it. I'm not saying that Klopp hasn't made mistakes today, I'm just wondering why the players shouldn't be getting the blunt end of the blame. I blame them 100% for not being able to break the team down. They failed to use game-intelligence in the attacking third.
Without wanting to say it, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" comes to mind.
As for Herc... show me the stats... You need a lot of stats to get a truly holistic view of where the club is right now. I liked Rodgers and I very much like (and prefer) Klopp, and I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't correlations, but I highly doubt they are identical.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
We should not be relying on "Mourinho's comments" about giving up on fourth, and Arsenal's general post-season deflation to make fourth place in the top four. We should be aiming to knock City out of their perch in third place, and to do that we might have needed an extra two points today.
Firstly... Our team "should" be enough to win at Anfield on any given day. Period. The crowd is behind you. You're the players most used to the stadium, pitch and atmosphere. You're also going to be in control of possession so there are no excuses for needing to make changes to win the game.
Why was the team we put out not good enough? Was it the tactics? Was it the players and a lack of commitment? Was it a lacklustre display at the back, or at the front? Was it down to bad luck or bad officiating? Was it to do with injuries or suspensions? Or is it the fundamental larger issue, that actually right now, the clubs squad isn't good enough?
Personally, TODAY, I feel like this is 100% down to the players. I don't care for people asking whether we could have changed players earlier. Why are the players in need of Klopps changes to break down a team that didn't manage a decent attempt on goal against them in two league meetings!? On another day, a draw with clean sheet against Southampton might have been acceptable, but there is more at stake for us than that and we didn't show it.
I would go as far as to say that the only three players that started that didn't disappoint were the centre-backs and goalkeeper, who handled everything they had to with consummate ease. Both full-backs were disappointing going forward, the middle three were passengers. Coutinho and Firmino continued to drop deep when they needed to keep the defence occupied, and Origi, for all the athleticism, didn't get the ball enough, and fell away when he did.
Tactically, we didn't need Lucas, Can and Wijnaldum (three defensive/central) midfielders together today, but they have to learn to take responsibility and adapt to the needs of the team rather than play it safe. Sideways passes. Hopeful balls forward. Give it to the full-back. They are better players than that. Pace of play needs to pick up a HELL OF A LOT to be acceptable. We didn't need Coutinho and Firmino to look for the ball when the team needs them to occupy and stretch the defence for midfielders to exploit and support. We didn't need Milner (to face up and drop back onto his right foot) or Clyne (to fail to beat the first man crossing and sit deeper) when we're pressing for a goal. Finally, Origi, who is seen as a strong yet pacey forward, was outmuscled in his hold up play, and far too predictable when trying to beat a man. All in all, those 11 players weren't worthy of a 6/10 today
I'm done with covering this up/justifying it to myself. People can blame Klopp if they want to but this is a fundamental issue that has grown since January and its time the players dealt with the truth. They are playing to entertain and to win, and if you're any less than 100% committed to that, you're not fit to wear the shirt on matchday.
If I were Klopp, I'd have changed the team earlier. I'd have made it abundantly clear that their pitiful display was their fault alone, but Klopp will understand full well that had we lost that game on the back of those comments, they may have proven more damaging than comments for growth.
I realise our squad is the weakest of the top six, and that we do have some injuries, but that is no excuse for the last four months. I expect a big display next weekend. Arsenal could be a point behind us by then. No room to hide or disappoint. We should all expect better.
Sorry, I simply cannot expect Lucas to be better at attacking and Origi better at scoring, they are just not to the task because they do not have the required skills.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,291
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,291 |
Who else could he have picked? You're either expecting him to put two up front and change the formation entirely, or you're asking him to risk players coming back from injury...
As for pace and invention, the manager can't exactly make the players play quicker from the touchline other than shout at players to do it. I'm not saying that Klopp hasn't made mistakes today, I'm just wondering why the players shouldn't be getting the blunt end of the blame. I blame them 100% for not being able to break the team down. They failed to use game-intelligence in the attacking third.
Without wanting to say it, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" comes to mind.
As for Herc... show me the stats... You need a lot of stats to get a truly holistic view of where the club is right now. I liked Rodgers and I very much like (and prefer) Klopp, and I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't correlations, but I highly doubt they are identical. Origi has been dreadful for over a month now and continues to get picked. Sturridge looked sharp when he came on at Watford and did more in the 20mins he was on the pitch yesterday than Origi has done in the last month. Therefore Sturridge should have started yesterday, plenty of us, myself included wanted this before the game started. Lallana played 76 minutes on Monday, so surely would have been in a position to start? Anyway, as you rightly say the players picked were awful, and it was obvious we were never going to score from open play. So why on earth did the manager not change it? For once we had two excellent attacking options on the bench and he waited until 68 minutes before changing it, it should have been done at half time, or at 50 minutes if he wanted to see how the 2nd half started. Why did he wait so long?
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,077
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,077 |
You're a stat man JJ, so how can you say Klopp gets a lot more out of his players than Rodgers did, when their stats are identical. Because the teams/amount spent are far from identical. Rodgers also had a Suarez. Compare the Suarez-less seasons.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
You're a stat man JJ, so how can you say Klopp gets a lot more out of his players than Rodgers did, when their stats are identical. Because the teams/amount spent are far from identical. Rodgers also had a Suarez. Compare the Suarez-less seasons. Beware, someone might say let's compare with Mane-less games as well.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,077
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,077 |
You're a stat man JJ, so how can you say Klopp gets a lot more out of his players than Rodgers did, when their stats are identical. Because the teams/amount spent are far from identical. Rodgers also had a Suarez. Compare the Suarez-less seasons. Beware, someone might say let's compare with Mane-less games as well. We have been awful. One dimensional and slow without mane. He's our best player by a long way. And it shows we are a one man team almost. I'd still take Suarez.
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 431
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 431 |
I hope we scrape 4th. I want klopp to get champions league attract better players and then make a proper judgement on him as a manager.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
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OP
Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
I'm not surprised people think Mane is our best player, but the thing for me about Mane is that he offers us something that no other player does... Beating a man with acceleration, not that he is our best player. The same way we can say the same about Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino offering completely different options. Its just that opposition teams only genuinely fear Mane and Coutinho, and that helps open up space for players around them.
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054 |
Where are Ojo and Wilson? I was hoping they might be able to step up and play a few games, I'm surprised there not even on the bench with our recent injuries, even as a 10 minute option at the end.
As for Lallana & Sturridge, I'm sure Klopp would have liked to start or bring them on earlier, but I am guessing with them coming back from injury he does not want to risk them, we have to trust the medical staff.
Also, I see Moreno sat there playing land the Bottle, he can't defend, but he has pace and can dribble abit with a decent shot, something we are missing, why not give him a run at left sided midfield instead of Lucas, at least for the second half when we can all see where it's (not)going?
Last edited by ecnirp98; 08/05/17 07:58 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595 |
You're a stat man JJ, so how can you say Klopp gets a lot more out of his players than Rodgers did, when their stats are identical. Because the teams/amount spent are far from identical. Rodgers also had a Suarez. Compare the Suarez-less seasons. Beware, someone might say let's compare with Mane-less games as well. In business school they told us: if you see a good idea anywhere, steal it! So yes Bo, how about comparing "Mane-less games as well" Ha, ha, ha!
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