KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum How do you get around a parked bus?

It's been obvious for a long time that we struggle to break down teams that come to just defend.
So what is the answer? Faster tempo? Throw on a target man and play long ball? New formation? Obviously it's on Klopp to come up with the answer, just curious what other people would do.

IMO the issue we have is a lack of width, which means the middle is too crowded and slows down our tempo as we try to find a way though. I'd like to see us try a 3-4-1-2 formation in these games, with the wing backs really pushing on and stretching the pitch and two strikers up top so we've always got someone in the box to hit with an early ball. Something like:

--------------------Migs-------------------
------Matip-----Lovren------Milner-----
Clyne-----Can--------Wij-----Moreno
------------------Lallana------------------
----------Firmino----Coutinho----------

Obviously not the ideal players for it, but it would atleast create more space for the likes of Phil and Roberto, which would hopefully lead to a faster tempo

This was on talksport today spurs are the model their tactic is to hit shots from distance either scoring or getting deflections opening things up. Liverpool try to create the perfect goal by passing around this plays into the hands of teams PTB. Ray Houghton

I wouldn't say there is an easy or perfect answer to this. The players and the way you WANT to play often dictates how best to beat teams.

I think a lot of this is underpinned by fear. By that, I mean how many players are the opposition worried about and how easy is that to handle.

Man City, with so much pace in their front three (Sane, Sterling and Jesus) will always be able to beat a man and worry teams on the counter. You play to that strength by allowing them to part play so that players like Silva can play through a stretched back line. Because of those inventive players that play centrally, City are usually less prone to taking random shots and will look to split the defence. Their strength lies in their ability to keep the ball, be patient, and pounce with incision.

Spurs on the other hand have a narrower set-up. They will look to drive through the middle with Alli, Eriksen, Dembele and Kane. They use the pace of their full backs and their incredible ability to cross to cause mayhem in the box. That plays to Kane's natural strength in the air. He alone can draw defenders and open up opportunities to players the opposition are less fearful of, like Son, who has proven to take advantage consistently. Where Man City are reluctant to take a pot-shot, Spurs have players who are quick in anticipating play and so benefit from those.

Both teams have a fully realised set of strengths in attack that they can prosper from and play up to. Liverpool's tactic is about commitment and variety in play, and that unpredictability is arguably far more advantageous to us than the "set regime" plays of some of the other teams, but only when the opposition generally worry when every player is on the ball. Right now, we don't have conviction from the players we have, and because of the limited squad depth, we also don't have enough variety to make it unpredictable.

When people spoke about being found out, it was actually, to me, a larger issue of losing that variety and unpredictability. That's why, I believe, we have been linked with players like Brandt and Keita, because they are different to what we have, and are players that you don't like to play against.

Grounding and simplifying how I see this as best I can, against teams that sit back, we need a mix of players that run in behind (Mane), players that come to the ball (Coutinho), players that play tight to defenders (Firmino) and players that find space (Lallana). Without variety, we are too predictable and that is a huge issue if you want to win these games. Without Mane, we are losing a key proponent of the front four, and Origi isn't able to cover that at the moment.

- shots from distance
- players who can go direct and past players like neymar,messi types
-tiki taka quick passing(this requires immaculate passing and control, only team I've seen do this consistently is barcelona
- crosses and hopefully they reach someone(not our style)

Also, I think I mentioned this in another post is that even the best teams like barcelona and real madrid score ALOT of goals from counter attacks, especially after defending set pieces where weaker opposition will throw more bodies up and leaving space behind. Problem is our defence is not reliable and thus we don't quite have that option - Klopp doesn't seem to be comfortable letting other teams have a bit of space or having a go at us. Playing an aggressive press is good and all but when you win the ball and the opposition has barely gotten out of their box, all the bodies are still going to be behind the ball and we cant really convert those situations into goal threats.

Well you put more attacking players, for example Lallana instead of Lucas and players who are better in tight space like Sturridge instead of Origi. You can also cross and head, but we don't have the right players for that

both CLown and Millner suck at it

Yes especially Milner who is even left footed, however, there is nobody to head the ball, Origi the tallest of our attackers, is afraid to put his head in a tight defence, he goes with his chest.

our two fullbacks are among the weakest offensively for a top 5 team. Both solid defensively, but that rarely matters against the teams parking the bus against us. Sometimes I'd like to see Moreno instead of Milner when we need some pace out wide.

It's so easy to defend against Milner and Clyne. Any fullback who has watched our games knows Milner likes to check back to his right foot to cross(sometimes a dummy or two to buy space) and we aren't the tallest team in the league so teams are more than happy to defend those. Clyne cuts infield 9 out of 10 times he gets the ball and then just passes it to someone in the middle(who's getting heavily pressured and ends up passing back). I hardly ever see both of them trying to take on their men and go to the byline and whip a low hard one across goal or cutback(mainly due to the lacking the pace for it). My personal opinion is that pacy fullbacks with good delivery is really important in successful teams. That's why Alaba,mendy, marcelo etc are so highly regarded and also why Mourinho uses valencia as a fullback(and proving to be very good one).

We can't really use our pace when the opposition is sitting deep so dominating possession is detrimental to our aim of winning. We can win IF we let teams have the ball, so we can counter attack. Keeping the ball when our opponents are camped in their 18 yd box just means we won't get many chances. Of course, it might be an idea to learn how to defend first if we're going to invite teams on to us!

Some teams put crosses into the box and some other teams use short range pass & move to get through defences. Nothing new there really.

Our problem is we're relatively shítte at both those solutions when our opponent decide to sit deep. Hence we're struggling against such teams.

The solution???

See to that you get better at either of those solutions. It's not much harder than that - but have we tried?

Oh, and as you say Darc - get better at defending ffs! A defensive coach and a proper goal keeping coach should be able to work wonders with us in just a few weeks.

A draw instead of a loss against lower teams would have put us out of reach from Arse and Manure. That's how bad we've been against the these teams this season! Against top 6 we've been world class of course, so that's not a problem for us!