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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824

Something has fundamentally changed, and it doesn't seem fair anymore to oversimplify all of it to...

"Mane went away and results changed"
"Coutinho's been injured and is only just getting back"
"We've a few players that have stopped scoring"
"We've a few players that just aren't good enough"
"We've been found out"
"We're just low on belief"

There is far too much at stake for it to be simplified into such throwaway one-liners. Its all of it and more.

Klopp has shown profound discontent, with good and bad results, when asked to compare games. Every game is different, a different approach, a different ground, a different last result and a different preparation. But sometimes the big challenge is to accept that every game is 90 mins, every game is about goals, and every game is about finishing with more than the opposition.

Over the first half of the season:

Liverpool won 13 of the 19 leagues games
Won all 4 League Cup Games
That's 17 wins in 23 games
Drawing 4 times
Losing just twice

On very few occasions in that time did the press or fan-base believe these were lucky results. They were about hard-work, and quality. We outran, outsmarted and outpressed a huge proportion of our opposition.

Since then, we've won only 1 of 5 cup games
Out of all cup competitions as a result
We've failed to win in 3 league games
Attaining 2 points from a possible 9
Dropping the club from 2nd to 4th
Dropping the club from 6 points to 10 points behind Chelsea

It's clear on paper that we missed Mane, though of course, he did feature in the performance against Sunderland that has since escalated into such a bad run of form. Coutinho actually returned as Mane left. So his injury, while increasing pressure on the rest of the first team, has not truly proven game-changing.

What about the productivity of the team?

Liverpool conceded 22 in 23 games before New Years.
Liverpool have conceded 10 in 8 games since.
So our defence is a little less robust.
Amplified given the impressive possession statistics we've posted recently.

Liverpool scored 58 in 23 games, 46 in 19 league games.
Liverpool have since scored 7 in 8 games, 5 in 3 league games.
An incredibly poor return, given those games include 2 of the bottom 4, 2 games against League Two opposition, and Wolves of the Championship.

It would be unfair to say that Klopp has picked teams incapable of winning. Our best XI has played the tougher games, and huge experience has underpinned the teams that played in the cup games in which we've floundered.

It's not good enough to think that teams have "found us out." Loads of teams played us on the counter earlier in the season, and we broke them down.

And the players are more than good enough on paper to break any team down. If we can break down better defences that are able to play less deep, we should be capable of bypassing lesser defences that play deeper.

Without a statistic in sight, its clear from our play that...

We don't have any incisive play around the box when Coutinho or Mane are not playing.
We look most vulnerable when Matip is out of the team.
We have played more sideways passes to keep possession than forward passes looking to cut through.
Our full-backs have been more rigid positionally.
Our midfielders have overcrowded in midfield, weakening both our offense (too dense to play through) and defence (too dense that one pass over them takes them all out of the game).
We have strikers that have been able to contribute marginally in all recent games - out of form.
Liverpool have not dropped their work-rate or distance covered in the January period.

So our fitness levels aren't down, but our inventiveness has waned both because of better defensive play, and a less potent front-line.

If our team is capable of winning the league, we need investment to make those squad players actually competitive. Or we need time to improve the players on the training field.

Maybe we're impatient? This time last year we were nowhere. We've clearly progressed, it is a worry that we are regressing at the moment though. Nothing wrong with voicing discontent. While there are minutes on the clock, no reason to turn on the team though.

If there is one thing we don't want to change, is that record against the rest of the top six. Even if we win against Chelsea, our problems aren't over, they will be at the fore-front again as we come to face Hull - another team at the bottom of the league (albeit one looking more adventurous under their new manager).

I don't want to be patient. I want us to drive on and look at the next few games as a huge opportunity.

I'm equally worried and optimistic about our future. I'm worried things won't change quick enough to get us that league title. I'm worried a loss against Chelsea might destroy everything we'd done so well to attain by January. I'm optimistic a win could rejuvenate the squad. I'm optimistic we'll benefit from Mane returning and players improving under Klopp's training methods. I'm optimistic changes will be made to improve the squad, and yet worried they won't happen quick enough to affect this season.

Bring on Tuesday. Bring on the leaders. Chelsea are now over-whelming favourites given our recent run of results, and we like to play the role of the underdogs. Lose it, and we're battling for fourth. Win it, and any faint dreams might not be over. A couple of losses to ourselves and Arsenal will really shake up the league. So long as Chelsea don't win either game, the race is wide open again.

Something fundamentally changed as December changed to January. Let's hope it reverts back now January is nearly at its end. We need and want to be in the mix. Maybe the breathing room being out of the cup games will prove a blessing for us this season. Here's hoping.

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,605
V
1st Team Squad
1st Team Squad
V Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,605
Well put JJ! smile

I too think it's not about fitness, it's about playing too slow against lower teams, as we discussed in the shout box earlier.

We need players making deep runs into the opponent's box, and we need to see early longer balls into the box too, before the opponents have settled in their defensive formation.

Now we need to get a result against Chelski. A draw would be good enough, and a win great for morale!

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Nah. We're just having a bad patch grin

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Credit to you for typing all that out impressed


IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Did you read it though Stan?

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Originally Posted By jjmelling/Stato

Something has fundamentally changed, and it doesn't seem fair anymore to oversimplify all of it to...

"Mane went away and results changed"
"Coutinho's been injured and is only just getting back"
"We've a few players that have stopped scoring"
"We've a few players that just aren't good enough"
"We've been found out"
"We're just low on belief"

There is far too much at stake for it to be simplified into such throwaway one-liners. Its all of it and more.

Klopp has shown profound discontent, with good and bad results, when asked to compare games. Every game is different, a different approach, a different ground, a different last result and a different preparation. But sometimes the big challenge is to accept that every game is 90 mins, every game is about goals, and every game is about finishing with more than the opposition.

Over the first half of the season:

Liverpool won 13 of the 19 leagues games
Won all 4 League Cup Games
That's 17 wins in 23 games
Drawing 4 times
Losing just twice

On very few occasions in that time did the press or fan-base believe these were lucky results. They were about hard-work, and quality. We outran, outsmarted and outpressed a huge proportion of our opposition.

Since then, we've won only 1 of 5 cup games
Out of all cup competitions as a result
We've failed to win in 3 league games
Attaining 2 points from a possible 9
Dropping the club from 2nd to 4th
Dropping the club from 6 points to 10 points behind Chelsea

It's clear on paper that we missed Mane, though of course, he did feature in the performance against Sunderland that has since escalated into such a bad run of form. Coutinho actually returned as Mane left. So his injury, while increasing pressure on the rest of the first team, has not truly proven game-changing.

What about the productivity of the team?

Liverpool conceded 22 in 23 games before New Years.
Liverpool have conceded 10 in 8 games since.
So our defence is a little less robust.
Amplified given the impressive possession statistics we've posted recently.

Liverpool scored 58 in 23 games, 46 in 19 league games.
Liverpool have since scored 7 in 8 games, 5 in 3 league games.
An incredibly poor return, given those games include 2 of the bottom 4, 2 games against League Two opposition, and Wolves of the Championship.

It would be unfair to say that Klopp has picked teams incapable of winning. Our best XI has played the tougher games, and huge experience has underpinned the teams that played in the cup games in which we've floundered.

It's not good enough to think that teams have "found us out." Loads of teams played us on the counter earlier in the season, and we broke them down.

And the players are more than good enough on paper to break any team down. If we can break down better defences that are able to play less deep, we should be capable of bypassing lesser defences that play deeper.

Without a statistic in sight, its clear from our play that...

We don't have any incisive play around the box when Coutinho or Mane are not playing.
We look most vulnerable when Matip is out of the team.
We have played more sideways passes to keep possession than forward passes looking to cut through.
Our full-backs have been more rigid positionally.
Our midfielders have overcrowded in midfield, weakening both our offense (too dense to play through) and defence (too dense that one pass over them takes them all out of the game).
We have strikers that have been able to contribute marginally in all recent games - out of form.
Liverpool have not dropped their work-rate or distance covered in the January period.

So our fitness levels aren't down, but our inventiveness has waned both because of better defensive play, and a less potent front-line.

If our team is capable of winning the league, we need investment to make those squad players actually competitive. Or we need time to improve the players on the training field.

Maybe we're impatient? This time last year we were nowhere. We've clearly progressed, it is a worry that we are regressing at the moment though. Nothing wrong with voicing discontent. While there are minutes on the clock, no reason to turn on the team though.

If there is one thing we don't want to change, is that record against the rest of the top six. Even if we win against Chelsea, our problems aren't over, they will be at the fore-front again as we come to face Hull - another team at the bottom of the league (albeit one looking more adventurous under their new manager).

I don't want to be patient. I want us to drive on and look at the next few games as a huge opportunity.

I'm equally worried and optimistic about our future. I'm worried things won't change quick enough to get us that league title. I'm worried a loss against Chelsea might destroy everything we'd done so well to attain by January. I'm optimistic a win could rejuvenate the squad. I'm optimistic we'll benefit from Mane returning and players improving under Klopp's training methods. I'm optimistic changes will be made to improve the squad, and yet worried they won't happen quick enough to affect this season.

Bring on Tuesday. Bring on the leaders. Chelsea are now over-whelming favourites given our recent run of results, and we like to play the role of the underdogs. Lose it, and we're battling for fourth. Win it, and any faint dreams might not be over. A couple of losses to ourselves and Arsenal will really shake up the league. So long as Chelsea don't win either game, the race is wide open again.

Something fundamentally changed as December changed to January. Let's hope it reverts back now January is nearly at its end. We need and want to be in the mix. Maybe the breathing room being out of the cup games will prove a blessing for us this season. Here's hoping.



What changed in Jan is that we had far more games coming at a time when our players are less fresh, our best player gone, our second best player not fully match fit and very average players to step in. Our squad is just too limited in quality. It is as simple. If we don't reinforce in this window we won't qualify for CL. Hope has replaced belief

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Did you read it though Stan?


No I weighed it I am sure it made perfect sense


IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

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