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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849 |
funny that england have pretty much dominated both their matches, yet almost end up with an embarrassing 2 points, same as every other tournament can't buy a goal. we shouldn't be happy with those 2 performances despite 4 points, because we don't know how to play football in the final 3rd it seems yet, not even really in our warm up matches when we had vardy and kane up front, we had limited success offensively. now we'll probably be up against teams who want to attack us (I'm not saying wales didn't but russia certainly didn't) and will use a back 4, we could switch back to a 4231 and get the PL's top goalscorer kane (who has played a lot of matches this season so might be a bit fatigued) finally putting the ball in the back of the net.
anyone else given up trying to understand england in relation to other teams?
other than the welsh fans, who were laughing at our 1-1 with russia, they do realize russia actually tried to attack slovenia and showed how poor they were defensively. instead of relying on long balls, set pieces, and broken play against england, only did the russians really commit men forward against england at the end. that is the difference between england russia, and the slovenia russia matches.
I was going to post on here before the match I don't envy roy hodgson, and I don't think anyone else should of with the decisions he had to make. we didn't fashion enough chances even if we dominated a 3rd game, and remain undefeated in the easy group stages. as much as I defended roy hodgson and he got praise for his subs against wales, only he could fvck up a pressing style, if England had an actual style of football which they could build on, no matter if we dominated the game or not against slovak we would have created more chances. You've got defenders making fouls near your own half way line from aerial duels, and rooney who thinks he's pirlo. It's a crime that deli alli and kane aren't making the difference they should be this euros. can't totally complain about slovakia being defensive, okay they were more defensive in the 2nd half, but they had bodies in england half enough times to warrant having a good mindset to the match.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,069
Under 23 Player
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OP
Under 23 Player
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,069 |
...now that he has improved his end product he is starting to become an important player. What? Do you mean his rear end product? When did he score the last time and when was his last assist? He plays as an attacking midfielder and here are the stats from last season (all games). -55 games (3 253 minutes) -7 goals -7 assists -1.5 shots per game -2 Motm appearances These are NOT the stats of an important player. I can't believe we have sunk so low that we are lead to believe this kind of player is Liverpool material. Not strange we nowadays repeatedly end up at 6:th, 7:th and 8:th place in the league then! I think he boosts the stats of players around him. And also he played better towards the end so he would probably have better stats if your took say the last 20 games.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849 |
Isn't every liverpool player's stats better for the last 20 games, except other than maybe benteke, due to lack of games? Yes it's his workrate that helps boost the players around him, but his workrate makes up for his lack of quality?
It's not lallana's finishing that particularly annoys me, even if he doesn't have many goals to his game, and he had 2 similar chances he failed to take against both russia and slovakia, it's his style which frustrates me. He has a fair amount of shots - but crucially not in good areas most of the time. He's not like mane, he's not a direct player. I don't know about his off the ball work, when we're in possession, not out of it, as the attacking team. certainly his off the ball workrate is good when we're the defending team, hence he makes 2 tackles per match.
Last edited by Torres65; 21/06/16 08:55 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 739
Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 739 |
Silva has never got loads of goals/ assists for City, but he's considered of of the best in his position in the PL at least. Why is Lallana any different?
Lallana's importance to us is what Silva is to City. He creates chances on and more importantly for this debate, off the ball.
If we can replace Lallana with someone like Gotze then fair enough, but replacing Lallana with someone like Mane/ another potential would be a waste of time imo, they'd yield very similar results. If we can't get an clear upgrade on him, I'd like to keep him, same with Allen. They're not the best but if we can't get the best, why swap them for player who will need to adapt?
Last edited by harleybrown; 21/06/16 11:47 AM.
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,650
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,650 |
klopp has changed lallana, he is a much better player , if he can add goals to his game he will be a right player.. I wouldn't swap him with Gotze , watched his two games so far and he looks like a fat prima donna ,maybe klopp can get him back to what he was but not worth the risk imo, his chubby knees look like a cruciate waiting to happen
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849 |
Firmino and our other 2 cm's + striker, and even partly left winger coutinho have to take minor responsibility for lallana not getting into goalscoring positions often enough, our attack is worse down the right as sevilla identified. It comes back to liverpool not being able to press perfectly yet the way klopp wants in some ways, even in the europa final. lallana only averages/makes 0.7 interceptions per match, instead of more tackles, I'd rather he won the ball further up the pitch. we need more effective pressing, from players like firmino who should be perfect for it when we get there, we have to aim to press even better than spurs. Obviously the higher they win the ball up the field the easier it should be to have end product. The stronger spine we have, the less defensive responsibility our high offensive wingers have, and the more they can focus on stretching teams on and off the ball. or making themselves available to get the ball into our central players up the field as quickly as possible.
I don't think mane really has enough quality to play for liverpool, I just thought he was a good 3rd choice option if we can't get anyone, and using him as an example of someone who is more direct, of which lallana will have to be if he is going to be a good right attacking winger for liverpool, in things for example like his passing, and through ball opportunities he can make. He made one in the europa final, against a fairly easy team to get in behind, he'll also probably have to make more crosses into the forward if he is to be a very good right winger for liverpool. he only averages 0.4 crosses this season which isn't the most encouraging.
Silva does create a lot of assists 11 assists in the PL this season, lallana and silva are fairly similar players, silva also has more of a berth in his favoured position in CAM. and silva is a better passer, who will move the ball quicker, silva has made 2.8 key passes per game for man city in the PL this season, lallana 1.7, almost a whole extra key per pass game, it's easy to see why silva is considered more influential
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 23,084
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 23,084 |
klopp has changed lallana, he is a much better player , if he can add goals to his game he will be a right player.. I wouldn't swap him with Gotze , watched his two games so far and he looks like a fat prima donna ,maybe klopp can get him back to what he was but not worth the risk imo, his chubby knees look like a cruciate waiting to happen i must admit Gotze has looked like a fat Brolin in the first two games,whether that's because he's injured most of the time or he's just a little porker I don't know,but no matter we still need something better than Lallana who should be scoring 10+ a season.
That job interview was going so well until I realized I was fukked up on acid in the middle of a cornfield naked and talking to a scarecrow.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,291
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,291 |
Silva has never got loads of goals/ assists for City, but he's considered of of the best in his position in the PL at least. Why is Lallana any different?
Lallana's importance to us is what Silva is to City. He creates chances on and more importantly for this debate, off the ball.
According to the Premier League stats page David Silva has contributed 57 assists and 35 goals in 6 seasons. This doesn't include European or Cup competitions. I don't need to check Lallana's stats because I know they don't come close to this, they may play similar positions but in my opinion Silva is miles better than Lallana.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
Silva has never got loads of goals/ assists for City, but he's considered of of the best in his position in the PL at least. Why is Lallana any different?
Lallana's importance to us is what Silva is to City. He creates chances on and more importantly for this debate, off the ball.
If we can replace Lallana with someone like Gotze then fair enough, but replacing Lallana with someone like Mane/ another potential would be a waste of time imo, they'd yield very similar results. If we can't get an clear upgrade on him, I'd like to keep him, same with Allen. They're not the best but if we can't get the best, why swap them for player who will need to adapt? Lallana is nowhere near Silva who is technically well ahead and has more composure in front of goal
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,069
Under 23 Player
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OP
Under 23 Player
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,069 |
Isn't every liverpool player's stats better for the last 20 games, except other than maybe benteke, due to lack of games? Yes it's his workrate that helps boost the players around him, but his workrate makes up for his lack of quality?
It's not lallana's finishing that particularly annoys me, even if he doesn't have many goals to his game, and he had 2 similar chances he failed to take against both russia and slovakia, it's his style which frustrates me. He has a fair amount of shots - but crucially not in good areas most of the time. He's not like mane, he's not a direct player. I don't know about his off the ball work, when we're in possession, not out of it, as the attacking team. certainly his off the ball workrate is good when we're the defending team, hence he makes 2 tackles per match. Yes but then if the whole team is under performing at the start and middle of the season it is harsh to blame one player for not having great stats when the most of the team don't either. He's got the work rate and the creativity and if he is making an intelligent run off the ball to create space for someone else to score, or a neat flick to assist the assist then those stats don't represent his true contribution. I also think his form was one the reasons why our whole team's form picked up.
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