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I think you are missing the point the champions League is only one of four avenues you can achieve to be regarded as world class, you can also include the World Cup, Eutopean Championships and a strong footballing countries domestic League. You are completely right there are Chelsea and United players who only won the champions league once like Lampard, Terry, Drogba and Rooney and Ferdinand too however they all won about 3 to 5 league titles to go along with there one European cup win so proved it at the highest level more than once to show it was no fluke. Thierry Henri won league titles European Championships and a World Cup and played a contributing role in the overall outcombse in those triumphs he never won a European cup at Arsenal tho but you couldn't say he deserved to be called world class or put him on the same level footing as an Owen, Susrez or a Gerrard can you even tho they were talented at a lower level...
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
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Fair points, tell me what 'level' you rank those 4 competitions in order from highest to lowest.
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Fair points, tell me what 'level' you rank those 4 competitions in order from highest to lowest. probably Champions League, World Cup, League Chammponship, European Championships most people would put them in different orders, I think there what I would call the major trophies in s players Career FA Cuos and League cups unfortunately don't carry worldwide weight now so players can pick up fours or gives of them and still not be considered world class.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
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This is one of those never-ending threads that won't go anywhere.
It's like comparing Tyson Fury to Mike Tyson to Ali.
Medals and trophies don't make a player world class, neither does being the star player for a poor side, like Le Tissier.
Nostalgia tells us Ali was the greatest, whereas a prime Mike Tyson would've probably taken him apart.
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Spangles
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This is one of those never-ending threads that won't go anywhere.
It's like comparing Tyson Fury to Mike Tyson to Ali.
Medals and trophies don't make a player world class, neither does being the star player for a poor side, like Le Tissier.
Nostalgia tells us Ali was the greatest, whereas a prime Mike Tyson would've probably taken him apart.
yes good points and completely rite about nostalgia, I don't think there is any defining way to decide what's world class however in sport the best and most trusted method is to go on what you win simply because in any sport even you reach the top a medal or trophy is awarded which is the best fact to show you have succeeded. What you win defines you Federer in tennis, Tiger woods in golf, Mike Tyson Boxing and Phil Taylor in darts they are al special because they reached the top and were rewarded with trophies, who has reached the very top and not won a major trophy in any major sport....
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Aug 2011
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If you have something to say, say it. These leading rhetorical questions aren't proving anything, and you've asked them before in this thread. You had no retort in the debate we were having, so now you're latching onto this and trying to throw spanners in the works again, instead of actually making an argument. You are mentioning quite a few names there who have not played at or not achieved enough at the highest level while at Liverpool Alonso and Mascherano have gone on to greater things, Suarez seems to be doing it now but the likes of Gerrard's and Big Sami never achieved enough at the highest level to be put alongside Xaxi and Inniesta midfielder wise or in Big Sami's case Carnavaro or Maldini's or even Fowler alongside a Shevchenko or Raul. The others you mentioned like Garcia and Riise well you are just being ridiculous or you have a very, very low opinion about the level of world class. I asked about Rooney and Ferguson because Everton fans loved those two players too and as good as they were for Everton they also never played enough at the higher level because Everton did not provide them with the platform Bolx. There is no higher achievement than winning the Champions league at the club level. Almost all of those players that I put in that first top bracket won the champions league, beating Shevchenko, Madini, Kaka and the like, who you mentioned as world class, and most of them went the final in 2007 where we faced them again. But I suppose Kaka doesn't count as world class either because he was sh*t at Madrid, and according to your backwards logic, that disqualifies him. Same with Shevchenko at Chelsea. Torres and Alonso won European Championships with Spain at the time they were with us, Suarez won a Copa America and got to a World cup semi-final. Hyypia won the treble with us, a champions league, another FA cup, two league cups and two Super cups. Gerrard won the same, and Captained England at two world cups. Owen won the Treble and a ballon D'Or, and ended up matching England's all time goal scoring record, which was only recently broken by Rooney. Comparing the achievements of those players to someone like Duncan Furgeson who won 1 measly FA cup while at Everton is ridiculous and grasping at straws.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
This is one of those never-ending threads that won't go anywhere.
It's like comparing Tyson Fury to Mike Tyson to Ali.
Medals and trophies don't make a player world class, neither does being the star player for a poor side, like Le Tissier.
Nostalgia tells us Ali was the greatest, whereas a prime Mike Tyson would've probably taken him apart.
Agree with that. People are confusing success for being world class. You can be a world class player without having won a thing. I do however think the term world class is given out a little too easily now days.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564 |
This is one of those never-ending threads that won't go anywhere.
It's like comparing Tyson Fury to Mike Tyson to Ali.
Medals and trophies don't make a player world class, neither does being the star player for a poor side, like Le Tissier.
Nostalgia tells us Ali was the greatest, whereas a prime Mike Tyson would've probably taken him apart.
Agree with that. People are confusing success for being world class. You can be a world class player without having won a thing. I do however think the term world class is given out a little too easily now days. Agreed. Anderson from United has more medals than Gerrard. Is there anyone alive who'll say he's a better player?
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
World class is a subjective phrase and we all have our own opinions of what it is. For me it means consistently performing on the world stage at the highest level e.g the world cup. There are exceptions of course but in broad terms thats whats mean by world class for me and even over the length of time I have watched the game truly I could not list more than ten players.
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564 |
World class is a subjective phrase and we all have our own opinions of what it is. For me it means consistently performing on the world stage at the highest level e.g the world cup. There are exceptions of course but in broad terms thats whats mean by world class for me and even over the length of time I have watched the game truly I could not list more than ten players. I would like to hear that list, Stan.
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