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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,291
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
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the modern game and managers have decided you can't do both as proved by resting players when there fit and playing weakened teams which cheat the match going fans.
By adopting the fourth place is everything policy is exactly what FSG have bought the club for, they have no interest in actually winning the league as to do that would mean risking more of there own money which they are simply not prepared to do so instead they just put enough in to maybe pinch the 4th place with just a bit of there own capital. Fans wanting champions league are buying into this, FSG are not interested in F.A Cups and League Cups because there isn't enough profit in them and now the fans are dismissing them to, that's why they are buying into the blueprint and at the same time going against what the club has ever stood for which is trying to win trophies... I think you'll find we are still in all competitions this season despite playing 'weakened' teams in the cup competitions. If Liverpool start competing in the Champions League on a regular basis then that is the base required to compete for the league title, we weren't far away under Rafa and that team was built on consistent Champions League qualification, admittedly having Gerrard, Carragher and Hyypia in their prime helped as well. Would Gerrard have stayed so loyal if we weren't in that competition every year? I'm not sure. You have absolutely no right to say that I or any other fan are going against the club principles of winning trophies. Your the one saying we cannot win a cup and finish Top 4, its not a choice and thats why we have a squad, to compete on all fronts. You need to understand the game of football has changed and adapt.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849 |
I think he's an older generation and local, and is bitter about the money that's plagued football and everything that comes with it, inc foreign owners using a once local club as an investment. I understand that, but time's a changed so.. 'get out of the way if you can't lend a hand'.
A fan wanting the best for the club wants the best for the club, the business as a whole. Winning smaller cups doesn't benefit the club as a whole as much as CL qualification does. Fact. They're fine, nice day, players get a medal, but the likes of Suarez didn't come to win the league cup, they come to play against the best of the best i.e. CL.
We all want the club to win a cup or two, but it's a bonus to getting back to the real big time. No we can't win the league with this team, but top 4 offers HUGE cash advantages, attracts better players, and though we can't compete with the oligarchs of this world, Lfc can compete if we get top 4 and give Klopp funds.
Give him a couple years and think longer term than a league cup.
That said, a final vs Everton would be smashing.
I doubt Suarez thought that for definite, (but I get your point and you're right it's the case for players who have talent). Strikers do well at liverpool because we have the right environment, and a team who are hungry for your and their success. It's a breeding ground for top class strikers, even benteke has scored 6 goals in 12 matches in the premier league some of them being the 8 substitute appears he's had in those 12 matches, where he's been effective (if we're leading a game etc, or he's subbed in for origi/firmino etc) scoring 3 goals and 2 assists in 9 substitute appearances. It's no wonder Sturridge did well here, not just because of Suarez.
Last edited by Torres65; 26/01/16 03:03 PM.
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Spangles
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Spangles
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I disagree Spangles to a point. I think the whole Top4 thing is because fans (rightly or wrongly) see it as the first line in the sand to then kick on and win the league deluded or otherwise and many are.
A case in point would be a friend of mine (Arsenal fan) who said he is happy of late because he sees 4th-3rd and if they get 2nd this year whilst disappointing it is still progress surely and steadily to a league title after years of book balancing by Wenger. Right or not many fans see it this way and it's a fair point of view.
interesting point about your Arsenal mate Top4, what would you think your Arsenal mate would be happy with more, For over the next 10 years Arsenal finishing mostly 4th and 3rd and one or 2 second place finishes...or... finishing 5th ( as long as it's above Spurs ) and in the 10 years maybe win 3 or 4 F.A. cups as well as maybe 1 or 2 League Cups and possibly a Europa League. What would he see as being better and more beneficial to him as a fan....
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Joined: May 2012
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
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IMO the only way the FA Cup will be taken as seriously as it used to be, is if they give the winner the 4th CL place. That really would make it a hell of a lot more interesting. Imagine what it would mean to a team like Wigan etc. with the money it would bring in. They have no chance of getting in via the league, so this would give them a chance.
That said it'll never happen because if teams like Wigan we're winning we'd probably lose the 4th CL spot.
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
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Spangles
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Spangles
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IMO the only way the FA Cup will be taken as seriously as it used to be, is if they give the winner the 4th CL place. That really would make it a hell of a lot more interesting. Imagine what it would mean to a team like Wigan etc. with the money it would bring in. They have no chance of getting in via the league, so this would give them a chance.
That said it'll never happen because if teams like Wigan we're winning we'd probably lose the 4th CL spot. yes would be in all favour of just 2 places going to the league and runners up and the other two places going to the winners of the domestic cups, this would get people and clubs to take it serious and stop managers playing weak teams. I am looking forward to either next season or the season after anyway as the premier league loses its fourth place to the Italians anyway so hopefully that will put all this fourth place over domestic cups none sense to bed once and for all as if we can't qualify for a top four place then we haven't a cat in hells chance of finishing top 3 haha...
Last edited by Spangles; 26/01/16 03:19 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Under 23 Player
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interesting point about your Arsenal mate Top4, what would you think your Arsenal mate would be happy with more, For over the next 10 years Arsenal finishing mostly 4th and 3rd and one or 2 second place finishes...or... finishing 5th ( as long as it's above Spurs ) and in the 10 years maybe win 3 or 4 F.A. cups as well as maybe 1 or 2 League Cups and possibly a Europa League. What would he see as being better and more beneficial to him as a fan....
LOL finishing 5th (I'm guessing you mean consistently) and maybe 3rd or 4 fa cups in 10 years. very hard to believe, almost deluded. Arsenal won't be the only team trying to win the fa cup, but if you managed them they would be the only team not trying to get in the top four clearly winning the CL should be arsenal's goal in 10 years, and if arsenal win the CL it's damn unlikely they won't win 2 fa cups in the 8 years following their champions league winning teams success, if not many league cups
Last edited by Torres65; 26/01/16 03:23 PM.
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Spangles
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Spangles
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interesting point about your Arsenal mate Top4, what would you think your Arsenal mate would be happy with more, For over the next 10 years Arsenal finishing mostly 4th and 3rd and one or 2 second place finishes...or... finishing 5th ( as long as it's above Spurs ) and in the 10 years maybe win 3 or 4 F.A. cups as well as maybe 1 or 2 League Cups and possibly a Europa League. What would he see as being better and more beneficial to him as a fan....
LOL finishing 5th (I'm guessing you mean consistently) and maybe 3rd or 4 fa cups in 10 years. very hard to believe, almost deluded. Arsenal won't be the only team trying to win the fa cup, but if you managed them they would be the only team not trying to get in the top four clearly winning the CL should be arsenal's goal in 10 years, and if arsenal win the CL it's damn unlikely they won't win 2 fa cups in the 8 years following their champions league winning teams success, if not many league cups i think it depends on other Clubs as what Arsenals aims are, We all know how financially solid the Club is infilstructure wise but that's no good when you put them against City and Chelsea's spending and let's not forget United who are the richest Club in the world next year when the figures are released, Arsenal can't be aiming for major trophies like European Cups ahead of those bigger more powerful Clubs...
Last edited by Spangles; 26/01/16 06:31 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
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And I bet Leicester weren't aiming for the premier league title either?
Last edited by wilkij1975; 26/01/16 06:30 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564 |
IMO the only way the FA Cup will be taken as seriously as it used to be, is if they give the winner the 4th CL place. That really would make it a hell of a lot more interesting. Imagine what it would mean to a team like Wigan etc. with the money it would bring in. They have no chance of getting in via the league, so this would give them a chance.
That said it'll never happen because if teams like Wigan we're winning we'd probably lose the 4th CL spot. I've been saying this for years. The name Champion's League is a bit of a farce anyway, with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th runners up competing.
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