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Originally Posted By: Hercules/AF 58
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Sorry I got that wrong Ireland is not part of NATO but then neither is Sweden and it has a huge terrorism problem. Anyone Irish who thinks they are immune us deluding themselves and if it does kick off there I suspect there will be a backlash from the population

That response to my post above is unworthy of you Stanley,


Perhaps I am wrong if so I apologise no offence was meant but most Irish people I know (I am part Irish and Catholic) are very patriotic and loyal to their faith far more so than in England and hence I think there would be a reaction. But I may be wrong


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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Sorry I got that wrong Ireland is not part of NATO but then neither is Sweden and it has a huge terrorism problem. Anyone Irish who thinks they are immune us deluding themselves and if it does kick off there I suspect there will be a backlash from the population


Could I just please find out what Sweden's "HUGE" terrorism problem is?


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From Wikipedia, so I am not sure about the accuraccy, but this seems far from the HUGE problem, the states, Britain, France and Germany are facing.


Until recent years, Terrorism in Sweden was not seen as serious threat to the security of the state.[1] The terrorism-related event in modern Swedish history which received the most attention was the West German embassy siege in 1975, which was carried out by the Red Army Faction. In 1976, the same group also planned Operation Leo which was to involve the kidnapping of Anna-Greta Leijon, but which was never set in action.

Then, the highest level violent action in Sweden to date happened in 1986, when Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme was killed in an action of dubious motivations. Several different terrorist leads were considered, but none has been proved conclusive.

Right-wing terrorism has caused the most fatalities in Sweden. In 1999 the Swedish Nazi group NRA (Nationella Republikanska Armén) carried out at least 3 bank robberies and killed 2 policemen. Later that year Nazis killed trade-unionist Björn Söderberg in his home. VAM (White Aryan Resistance) is also a Swedish terror group that carried out bank robberies and also robbed a police station.

Over the last decades the issue of certain terrorist groups, such as Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), using Sweden as a free haven has received attention. In the 2000s, the issue of terrorism financing and recruiting for terrorist groups, including Islamic groups, have also been on the security agenda. Criminal acts from domestic political extremist groups, both on the right and on the left, have also become an increasing phenomenon.[1]

The Swedish government agency tasked with keeping watch over terrorism-related threats is the Swedish Security Service.

Human Rights Watch criticized the Swedish government after police in Stockholm arrested Uzbek political opposition leader Muhammad Salih on May 18, 2006. Holly Cartner, HRW Executive Director for Europe and Central Asia, said the "fact that President Karimov can travel freely to Europe while Mohammad Solih remains subject to an Interpol warrant is plainly absurd."[2]


The 2010 Stockholm bombings occurred on 11 December 2010 when two bombs exploded in central Stockholm, Sweden, killing the bomber and injuring two people.[3][4][5][6][7] Swedish Minister for Foreign Affairs Carl Bildt and the Swedish Security Service (SÄPO) described the bombings as acts of terrorism.[5][8] Taimour Abdulwahab al-Abdaly, an Iraqi-born Swedish citizen, is suspected of carrying out the bombing.[9][10] The Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation described the event as the first suicide attack linked to Islamic terrorism in the Nordic countries.[11][12]

Last edited by Ninja Skrtel; 18/11/15 02:31 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Ninja Skrtel
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Sorry I got that wrong Ireland is not part of NATO but then neither is Sweden and it has a huge terrorism problem. Anyone Irish who thinks they are immune us deluding themselves and if it does kick off there I suspect there will be a backlash from the population


Could I just please find out what Sweden's "HUGE" terrorism problem is?


They havent had the mass attacks of london paris and new york but lots of low level attacks riots a swedish family butchered to death in a supermarkets that sort of thing. Define that as crime if you wish but where does terrosism start and crime end Lee Rigby was a single murder but most would class that as terrorsim.


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Originally Posted By: Ninja Skrtel
Originally Posted By: wilkij1975
Do we in the west not also get requests for help in some of these internal disputes too ninja? Syrians were definitely asking for help against Asad and the government was getting slated for not doing. Seems we could be damned if we do and damned if we don't.


As someone who has lived through a civil war in Serbia, let me tell you about the resistance movement in Serbia. The were known as "OTPOR" which literallz translates to resistance. The group of guzs who started the resistance and revolution seemed a verz well educated bunch and thez were verz adept at convincing others of their beliefs. I agreed with much of what they said and disagreed with onlz a few things. After the revolution and removal of Milosevic and the installation of a more pro-western government, the quality of life here went downhill, and has never recovered. Some 3 zears ago, news broke that the resistance movement here was funded by the west and that that same group of guzs has been in Iraq and Syria starting revolutions. Their strategy of raising and convincing the masses is so effective that they were hired by the west to go and create chaos and upheavel wherever the west wanted to remove the powers that be and instill their own. These guys are still working and doing this for the west.

In the mean time, the quality of life in Serbia has gone downhill, the government is no more than an extension of the IMF and a right hand to Angela Merkel. The Serbian people actually have no say on the waz the country is run.


So what are you saying? The west created the Arab spring to oust leaders and cause chaos and grief?

Plus, these well educated men you spoke of sound a lot like the better educated hate preachers and recruiters for many a terrorist organisation do they not? They can't all be western can they?

I do agree that the west is at fault for what it has done in the past, some of which we have been asked to do to help those suffering like those Assad was relentlessly bombing just because they wanted a different leader and a better way of life for example. I do hope that we change our ways and try and help these countries more rather than just fight them and for them but they also need to help themselves in order for it to work. And just letting the likes of ISIS run around doing what they're doing ain't going to help.

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About 300,000 years ago, humans (placed on penal colony earth) began trekking from the known cradle of "civilization" - africa, northwards into what is known as europe, asia, america etc. This begs the question, where were the borders then, why no passports and border checks. was this not an early form of land grabbing terrorism ?


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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
I do accept the invasion of Iraq contributed Hercules but not for the same reasons. Isis are not the start of Islamic terrorism but was around in saddams day and well before the reason that was one of the reasons he was as brutal as he was he kept the lid on it getting rid opened the lid, Islamic terrorism existed before Iraq and Afghanistan but yes these events made it worse but what was the west to do after New York do nothing ? and saddam was a threat to the Middle East. But where are where we are and the war we are in is for our very survival as a civilisation i care about what happens now

But that makes no sense Stanley, Saddam was not a Muslim terrorist he was a secular leader, and even Bush and Blair never gave terrorism as a reason for their invasion, they concocted their WMD rubbish to frighten their respective populations into supporting an invasion to stop Saddam selling oil in Eoros. Remember the "clear and present danger" rubbish from Blair and his "Sadam can drop the bomb on London in less than an hour" rubbish. Also you're incorrect to say Isis was in Iraq in Saddam's day, as Isis didn't exist then. It began as an offshoot from Bin Laden's outfit after the invasion and destruction of Iraq. We are where we are largely because of that invasion to save the Dollar as the international oil currency, including to a lesser extent Sterling. The Dollar as the international oil currency allows the USA to print virtually unlimited amounts of Dollars, which they use to fund their wars and arms industries, and hence their international hegemony. That's what it was all about and that's why we are where we are.

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Originally Posted By: wilkij1975
Originally Posted By: Ninja Skrtel
Originally Posted By: wilkij1975
Do we in the west not also get requests for help in some of these internal disputes too ninja? Syrians were definitely asking for help against Asad and the government was getting slated for not doing. Seems we could be damned if we do and damned if we don't.


As someone who has lived through a civil war in Serbia, let me tell you about the resistance movement in Serbia. The were known as "OTPOR" which literallz translates to resistance. The group of guzs who started the resistance and revolution seemed a verz well educated bunch and thez were verz adept at convincing others of their beliefs. I agreed with much of what they said and disagreed with onlz a few things. After the revolution and removal of Milosevic and the installation of a more pro-western government, the quality of life here went downhill, and has never recovered. Some 3 zears ago, news broke that the resistance movement here was funded by the west and that that same group of guzs has been in Iraq and Syria starting revolutions. Their strategy of raising and convincing the masses is so effective that they were hired by the west to go and create chaos and upheavel wherever the west wanted to remove the powers that be and instill their own. These guys are still working and doing this for the west.

In the mean time, the quality of life in Serbia has gone downhill, the government is no more than an extension of the IMF and a right hand to Angela Merkel. The Serbian people actually have no say on the waz the country is run.


So what are you saying? The west created the Arab spring to oust leaders and cause chaos and grief?

Plus, these well educated men you spoke of sound a lot like the better educated hate preachers and recruiters for many a terrorist organisation do they not? They can't all be western can they?

I do agree that the west is at fault for what it has done in the past, some of which we have been asked to do to help those suffering like those Assad was relentlessly bombing just because they wanted a different leader and a better way of life for example. I do hope that we change our ways and try and help these countries more rather than just fight them and for them but they also need to help themselves in order for it to work. And just letting the likes of ISIS run around doing what they're doing ain't going to help.


No they were not westerners at all, they were Serbians, but they were funded by the west and are now working directly for them. This is my point exactly. Saddam used to be an ally of the west, as was Bin Laden.They use these people and then use the mass media to turn people against them when they no longer have any use for them.

Yes I do believe the west instigated the Arab spring. Maybe I am wrong, but it is my opinion, i am open to arguments which will prove otherwise and will gladly listen.

Here is link about the guys I am talking about. The Guardian did a story on them.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/srdja-popovic-revolution-serbian-activist-protest


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Good to hear from someone with first hand experience like Ninja.

I don't think you'll ever convince anyone we're not the good guys. I don't even think it's that hard to grap. How else do countries like ours stay rich and on top?

As horrible as France was, no-one cried when 1m Iraqi's died due to our sanctions. No-one in France cried when approx 1m Rwandans were raped and butchered to death on France's watch.

I think it's the tip of the iceberg actually. We're certainly not alone and there's no excuse for these acts, but no-one asks why these people are angry. I doubt it's all because a few verses in an old book.

Check out Blood & Oil on topdocumentaryfilms. We're been fcking with the middle east since WWI.

- If we really wanted 'ISIS' destroyed, we'd let Iran do it instead of holding them off...

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The world's problems are directly caused by wishy washy liberals in my opinion.

What the world needs is 1 government, a benevolent dictatorship - a new world order.

Clearly the world population is too stupid to be allowed democracy, anyone who believes and kills for what is essentially a fairy tale, I include all religions in that group, needs locking away to prevent the defunct genes of that person from spreading.

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