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stan is caught between kill all muslims and trying to agree with it being ok to support Saudi..perplexing

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Originally Posted By: RedsforChampions
Originally Posted By: EMP
Originally Posted By: RedsforChampions
Originally Posted By: EMP
Liberalism in the neo -liberalism sense has nothing to do with people it is in fact against the people..it is liberal in that it allows investors and capitalists to operate unchecked and unregulated which has lead to economic disaster. For the vast majority of people unchecked capitalism has been a disaster, the labour movements did manage to create a middle class in the west but that has been under attack since the nixon era when production was sent out east. Before that was probably capitalisms best era when the GOVTs had national social programs and strong labour movements to counter unchecked capitalist intent .. that situation was reversed under nixon and reagan thatcher types and the west has been in decline since, maybe a tech inspired spike around the clinton era being the only exception.

Socialism the way u see is the govt deciding for u and I can understand that if you grew up in the USSR but socialism to me is protecting the society from private tyranny.



I did not grow in the USSR but spend a few years there, so I can make the difference as I spent some time in UK too. You can choose to say that it was not socialism despite them calling it themselves, but then what do you call socialism, a written utopia? Give me examples of successful socilist governments.


There are not many, socialism whenever it pops its heads up gets attacked by the rest of the world. French Revolution was attacked by the world, Russian Revolution was attacked by the world.Vietnam was obliterated.The Spanish Republic was the most promising,but again everyone attacked and killed them,preferring a hitler ally instead.The Chinese and USSR versions as I said were more based on a tyrannical control system which I would not class as socialism at all-in fact anti-socialism. For successful socialism one could look at FDR's reforms in the USA, which in comparison to todays political system over there is about as far left as the USA ever was. UK used to have a pretty tight labour movement (something hopefully JC brings back ) and its is no coincidence that the model economy now is Germany that kept its strong labour unions whilst the UK's motor and energy industuries pale in comparison due to the right wing assault on labour.

In todays world Latin America is a much happier place now (with socialist reforms) than it ever was with American picked dictators murdering them and subjecting them to market forces. Cuba tho under one of the longest and most intense terrorist attacks from the biggest superpower ever has done well to survive and they have a truly wonderful medical programme that helps poor people all over the world.
Its a struggle but one we have to keep fighting for..I think capitalism is pure ugly myself, a complete evil that subverts democracy into nothing more than a facade, and brings death and destruction to the world.


Why don't you go and live in Cuba or Latin America then? Socialism hasn't prevailed because it's all utopia, but you can keep on believing if you want. Unions almost brought UK to it's knees this is why Tatcher was elected so many times. France is in deep [oops] and I know what I am saying, all because of their unions and so called social system which makes them the least competitive


I disagree I don't think you know what your saying. The UK under Maggie followed Friedman economics policy which is all about dmaking your own economy a service one reliant on production and oil cheaper from other countries..that requires she destroys the labour force.. You don't seem to have any theory or evidence to support u claims other than "i know what i am saying" -

Also telling people where to go to live is a bit childish is it not?

Last edited by EMP; 27/11/15 05:53 PM.
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I thought friedman policies were about the money supply not manufacturing vs service you have to remember inflation was a major issue then. Anyone who thinks Margaret THachers was an economic failure clearly never lived through the 70's or read about it. Her economic policies were such a failure the labour party copied it and pretty much most countries in the EU. The only critque I have is she could have done more for the emerging manufcturing too much on financial services. Emp hates her for pure idological reasons so you will get no sense there


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Originally Posted By: TheKopProphet
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
I thought friedman policies were about the money supply not manufacturing vs service you have to remember inflation was a major issue then. Anyone who thinks Margaret THachers was an economic failure clearly never lived through the 70's or read about it. Her economic policies were such a failure the labour party copied it and pretty much most countries in the EU. The only critque I have is she could have done more for the emerging manufcturing too much on financial services. Emp hates her for pure idological reasons so you will get no sense there


Only the desperate even bother to try and rescue her legacy...


Its fine making throw away comments like that but based on what ? she has her detractors but the country was on its knees in 1976 look at it now all thats due to the reforms in the 80's not just her geoffrey Howe must take a lot of the credit too. If you think otherwise please explain


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Vive la France crazy

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That's a cop out kop that's no explanation. Whatever you or I think look at the basic facts. Britain was one of the poorest countries in Europe when she took over one of the richest when she left when she took over we were under threat of nuclear anhiliation when she left we were not and the old Soviet Union disbanded. She win three elections on the bounce and only failed because she fell out of favour with the Tories not the people the Tories were in power for two decades I could go on but do you think the British people would vote her and a party in for TWO DECADES if they were no good.?

I understand Maggie thatcher arouses passions for and against but you can't argue with that


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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
That's a cop out kop that's no explanation. Whatever you or I think look at the basic facts. Britain was one of the poorest countries in Europe when she took over one of the richest when she left when she took over we were under threat of nuclear anhiliation when she left we were not and the old Soviet Union disbanded. She win three elections on the bounce and only failed because she fell out of favour with the Tories not the people the Tories were in power for two decades I could go on but do you think the British people would vote her and a party in for TWO DECADES if they were no good.?

I understand Maggie thatcher arouses passions for and against but you can't argue with that


Can't argue..not only will I argue I will point out that every point u make is wrong. First off, British GDP stayed the same under her reign ,little bit up then back down again but more or less the same- all she did was take the money out of the public labour force and put it in elite coffers. She also had insane high unemployment throughout her reign- how is this a benefit to the british public so far?As for the soviet union thing don't make me laugh, the uk was long since a super power, there was only two players on that board game.

I might also add to her list of achievements that she supported and counted as her friends the most brutal regimes in the world( including suporting apartheid), used a war on the bloody falklands to rouse up some sort of national pride crap, brought N.Ireland to chaos, destroyed the labour force and used her police force like they were enforcing a military junta..the miners and the people of liverpool know only too well about that..she also most certainly covered up child sex abuse in the tories too..nice women ..

The verdict is well out on her Stan.

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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
I thought friedman policies were about the money supply not manufacturing vs service you have to remember inflation was a major issue then. Anyone who thinks Margaret THachers was an economic failure clearly never lived through the 70's or read about it. Her economic policies were such a failure the labour party copied it and pretty much most countries in the EU. The only critque I have is she could have done more for the emerging manufcturing too much on financial services. Emp hates her for pure idological reasons so you will get no sense there


Both go hand in hand, you get cheap production elsewhere, open up finance markets so that captailist investors can play havoc with other currencies and invest in these places or on stock of the companies that are now getting cheap labour and more profits

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Unlike you emp I am British I lived through the 1970's and the 1980's I remember them well yes they were hard times she took over in 1979 the country was a complete basket case in every way by the mid eighties unemployment was falling and the country had an economic boom which has continued to this day. The Britain today even under the recessions we have had are light years from those days. Thatcher was the right person for the day like Churchill. At that time we needed to take hard decisions on the economy and in the world. But whatever any of us think she won three elections and the country continued to vote Tory after she left and even when the Tories were voted out it was 13 years of a labor government that had her policies so after 1979 the people voted for her or her policies for near 40 years and counting. Whatever arguments you put emp that says it all you can't argue with the opinions of a nation a nation you are not a citizen of.


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I don't have to be a citizen to have an opinion Stan and I think the majority of people in liverpool and on this chat board would have a entirely different view on her than you.

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