Quick Links: Liverpool FC Forum | ShoutBox | Podcast | KopTalk.TV | Upgrade to VIP forums

Register Log In

KopTalk.com

Print Thread

Rate Thread

Page 6 of 8

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? nogger64 #465104 16/02/15 12:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 22,926 EnergisedReds Liverpool Legend
EnergisedReds Liverpool Legend Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 22,926	Originally Posted By: nogger64 I may be in the minority here but I'm not at all a fan of the suagr-daddy solution to the clubs future. Wealthy, oligarchs, despots and national wealth funds are glory-hunters of dubious standing, advised to raise their own profile and improve their 'brand' (I know, I hate it too but that's word that's been adopted). This kind of thing .... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23387...ign=feed-global FSG have made a mistake in not taking advantage of the chance to build a new stadium. Now is the time. Also, I'm not yet convinced about their commitment to the academy set up. They have provided funds for signings; they have decided how they're going to go about team development; talented youth (imported, so far) growing as a team together and managed by someone grateful to be here and who won't rock the boat too much. It has it's risks and will take time. If it works it'll feel like the 'right way' to do it; building, bringing on a team, organic. I've said it before; they have a plan (like it or not) and the club desperately needed that. The quality of the football is improving and so too is the commercial revenues. It's not fan ownership and there's no trophies to point at but there is general improvement in core areas. There's enough to feel like we're building. FSG as the best chance of success? No. That would be deep pocket owners. FSG appear competent and fallible, both. To fans they're a compromise. I just don't think that they're all bad either. I always felt that FSG are the 'best among the rest' owners, the best being City, Chelsea and PSG owners. LFC has been sold twice over less than 10 years and no egocentric Sugar Daddy bid the second time, first time DIC was interested. Therefore, I also think that they are the best we can get. They are much better than the Glaziers IMO.

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? EnergisedReds #465111 16/02/15 01:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 27,628 Not the EU Stanley Park Liverpool Legend
Stanley Park Liverpool Legend Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 27,628 Not the EU	But the glaziers whatever we think of them or United fans think you can't deny they invest look at last season and now they are linked strongly with bale. I would put FSG as the second best of the rest maybe even behind Spurs / arsenal. I agree with previous poster the odd champions league qualification and the occasional cup is Liverpool's lot from now on. The the decision not to build a new stadium has sent a massive message to the world Liverpool FC are no longer fiercely ambitious just moderately pragmatic. IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? Stanley Park #465112 16/02/15 02:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 125 N nogger64 Under 16 Player
nogger64 Under 16 Player N Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 125	The Glaziers bought on the basis of a leveraged buy-out; paid themselves 10s of millions in management fees and offed stock whenever they could; cashing up for their benefit. All whilst hardly ever paying down debt; simply refinancing it on better terms. They're splashing cash now out of desperation; if they become an also-ran but with huge debt, they are truly fecked. 'Fiercely ambitious' is not limited to those that splash cash and it definitely is not defined by it. As the poster above says, we've been up for sale twice in 10 years and not been picked up by any of the deep-pocket brigade. I would genuinely like to know which fiercely ambitious owners you think we should have.

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? nogger64 #465115 16/02/15 02:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 27,628 Not the EU Stanley Park Liverpool Legend
Stanley Park Liverpool Legend Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 27,628 Not the EU	I don't know which fiercely ambitious owners we should have but that does not mean we give up hope or that it's impossible. Yes glaziers did buy on a levered deal but if you examine manchester uniteds balance sheet it's very healthy with reserves and net worth more than covering the debt. Whereas our balance sheet is pretty much zero net worth or negative last time I looked. The glaziers are taking Manchester United forward the wealth they are generating is incredible and they are (were) our biggest rivals. there is only one way we will catch them and it's substancial investment both in the team and the club itself it needs someone with ambition and risk profile to take that on if you believe there is no person or consortium existing in the world then you have to accept our fate which is pretty much where we are today which I think is our natural level. That's not acceptable to me or never will be I don't see the point of following liverpool (one if the worlds greatest clubs) if that's all our expectations are IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? Stanley Park #465116 16/02/15 02:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 22,926 EnergisedReds Liverpool Legend
EnergisedReds Liverpool Legend Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 22,926	Originally Posted By: Stanley Park But the glaziers whatever we think of them or United fans think you can't deny they invest look at last season and now they are linked strongly with bale. I would put FSG as the second best of the rest maybe even behind Spurs / arsenal. I agree with previous poster the odd champions league qualification and the occasional cup is Liverpool's lot from now on. The the decision not to build a new stadium has sent a massive message to the world Liverpool FC are no longer fiercely ambitious just moderately pragmatic. Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. The Glaziers bought through leverage and got the club to pay all the financial charges and paid themselves dividends (don't know about mgt fees). They then sold floated their stock on the stock exchange to pay a part of the debt. As far as I know FSG hasn't forked out anything from the club at least so far, maybe because there was nothing to fork out too.

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? Stanley Park #465118 16/02/15 02:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 125 N nogger64 Under 16 Player
nogger64 Under 16 Player N Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 125	I didn't say they didn't exist but 2 successive sales have failed to flush them out. If there are options I'm not seeing them come to the surface. The Glaziers purchase was made when United was in a much healthier position to ours when FSG came in. How much ground redevelopment was needed ? How much did they cut back on squad spend when they felt they didn't have to, could simply milk it? They're not in the risk profile group you're talking of. Current spend is purely self preservation precisely because of what THEY have put at risk. They're ambitious for Glazier family and United are simply a vehicle. I agree about the need for investment, we're starting from a low base but there's no magic bullet to end 20+ years of poor strategic management. I'm not lauding FSG but in the absence of other available options, pragmatism and growth are good bedrocks.

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? nogger64 #465119 16/02/15 03:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 27,628 Not the EU Stanley Park Liverpool Legend
Stanley Park Liverpool Legend Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 27,628 Not the EU	I am doing this from memory but I googled Man United balance sheet from 2013 I recall. From memory net assets were £1.8 billion net liabilities (including acquisition debt £500m) were £1.2m net book worth £0.8 billion that's not bad is it ? If that's a leavered deal I wish we had some of that. FSG have bought the club outright and invested nothing and from the Tom Werner interview there is a clear hint they are preparing for exit IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? Stanley Park #465121 16/02/15 03:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 125 N nogger64 Under 16 Player
nogger64 Under 16 Player N Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 125	I'm not sure where we're going with this. United were at the time the biggest club in the world. The Glaziers bought a club with guaranteed revenues and limited additional investment needs. FSG did not. The GIaziers bought a premium, well run going concern. FSG did not. How the health of United books of 2013 will stack in comparative terms to 2004 (?) before the Glaziers' take-over, I don't know or have time to run any worthwhile acid-tests. However, I'm sure the Glaziers will have done very well financially from sweating their asset. If they were to sell now, I would argue that their actions during the period of management have not been responsible for any increased value in that asset; simply that they owned it at the right time FSG will make money because they bought a somewhat distressed asset and added value, primarily through, increasing commercial/off-field revs, the playing assets and some ground improvement. Neither owners are ideal, but unless there's a Scouse version of Jack Walker out there I won't celebrate an FSG departure until I've seen the alternatives.

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? Stanley Park #465122 16/02/15 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 22,926 EnergisedReds Liverpool Legend
EnergisedReds Liverpool Legend Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 22,926	Originally Posted By: Stanley Park I am doing this from memory but I googled Man United balance sheet from 2013 I recall. From memory net assets were £1.8 billion net liabilities (including acquisition debt £500m) were £1.2m net book worth £0.8 billion that's not bad is it ? If that's a leavered deal I wish we had some of that. FSG have bought the club outright and invested nothing and from the Tom Werner interview there is a clear hint they are preparing for exit Difference is we are in negative equity and it's from our operations. Without the Glaziers United would be in the same league as Real Madrid in terms of buying players.

Re: FSG: Liverpool’s best chance of success? EnergisedReds #465123 16/02/15 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 27,628 Not the EU Stanley Park Liverpool Legend
Stanley Park Liverpool Legend Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 27,628 Not the EU	Originally Posted By: RedsforChampions Originally Posted By: Stanley Park I am doing this from memory but I googled Man United balance sheet from 2013 I recall. From memory net assets were £1.8 billion net liabilities (including acquisition debt £500m) were £1.2m net book worth £0.8 billion that's not bad is it ? If that's a leavered deal I wish we had some of that. FSG have bought the club outright and invested nothing and from the Tom Werner interview there is a clear hint they are preparing for exit Difference is we are in negative equity and it's from our operations. Without the Glaziers United would be in the same league as Real Madrid in terms of buying players. Yes you are right had city's owner bought United outright I am pretty sure that's where they would be. And so would we possibly IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

Page 6 of 8

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

Moderated by KopTalk Team

Link Copied to Clipboard

Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.

Advertisements

Liverpool FC Discussion

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5