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Originally Posted By: bigredkop
I don't know why you keep adding the comparison to the top teams? I've never ever said Arsenal are there, in fact multiple times now I've said they are not. They quite clearly aren't cause they aren't winning trophies. And the only reasoning anyones been able to give (as you are all ignoring the opinion of our top target and a class professional footballer) is that it would be a bit weird to have 1 team in a tier of their own. And fair enough that is semantics then isn't it. But qualifying year after year in the Champions league clearly puts you ahead of a team that has one good season in the eyes of those who matter. Top class footballers. They lose their best players regularly so they aren't at the top table, but I have said that from second one so it doesn't add anything to this particular debate.

Would I take being in Arsenal's position over ours? Finishing 2nd once in the last 5 years, or Champions league every season, a brand new modern stadium, with the footing that puts you on? Damn straight I would. It's a cut above where we are. If you want to give that the word tier or not doesn't really matter, because mine and your opinions don't matter what word you would give to it. Players like Sanchez' (opinions) do, and he's already given his opinion on it and chosen the team who has regular Champions league football. There is no getting away from this fact, and the fact that it separates them from us whether you want to give that the name 'tier' or not.


* Very strange to have one team in a "group" of their own - they are closer to us than they are to the big boys so that's why they have been grouped accordingly.

* Ahead, true... but very much in the same boat in the overall scheme of things - targets for each new season for example, even players to an extent (not that we often go head to head with them for players)

* You would take qualifying for the Champs league every year but never really "competing in it" over our Champions league win we had recently, not to mention the final two seasons later???

* They signed a very good player in Sanchez and can't fault him for his choice... but you've really got to stop banging on like he's some world beater whistle If he was that good he would be plying his trade at one of the really top clubs - and or have Arsenal punching above their weight... seems to me they're struggling a little this season even with him.

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Originally Posted By: Duncan_Donut
Originally Posted By: bigredkop
I don't know why you keep adding the comparison to the top teams? I've never ever said Arsenal are there, in fact multiple times now I've said they are not. They quite clearly aren't cause they aren't winning trophies. And the only reasoning anyones been able to give (as you are all ignoring the opinion of our top target and a class professional footballer) is that it would be a bit weird to have 1 team in a tier of their own. And fair enough that is semantics then isn't it. But qualifying year after year in the Champions league clearly puts you ahead of a team that has one good season in the eyes of those who matter. Top class footballers. They lose their best players regularly so they aren't at the top table, but I have said that from second one so it doesn't add anything to this particular debate.

Would I take being in Arsenal's position over ours? Finishing 2nd once in the last 5 years, or Champions league every season, a brand new modern stadium, with the footing that puts you on? Damn straight I would. It's a cut above where we are. If you want to give that the word tier or not doesn't really matter, because mine and your opinions don't matter what word you would give to it. Players like Sanchez' (opinions) do, and he's already given his opinion on it and chosen the team who has regular Champions league football. There is no getting away from this fact, and the fact that it separates them from us whether you want to give that the name 'tier' or not.


* Very strange to have one team in a "group" of their own - they are closer to us than they are to the big boys so that's why they have been grouped accordingly.

* Ahead, true... but very much in the same boat in the overall scheme of things - targets for each new season for example, even players to an extent (not that we often go head to head with them for players)

* You would take qualifying for the Champs league every year but never really "competing in it" over our Champions league win we had recently, not to mention the final two seasons later???

* They signed a very good player in Sanchez and can't fault him for his choice... but you've really got to stop banging on like he's some world beater whistle If he was that good he would be plying his trade at one of the really top clubs - and or have Arsenal punching above their weight... seems to me they're struggling a little this season even with him.



This.

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Originally Posted By: wilkij1975
I think you're right that they are on a better footing than us but I can't see them being a tier above us until they actually start making good use of what they have. They haven't had any ambition to win things for years hence why all their best players move on. They're content to get top 4 every year, usually 4th, and count that as their success.


This right here.

Last edited by Duncan_Donut; 26/01/15 05:47 PM.
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Originally Posted By: wilkij1975
Possibly. I imagine we have a bigger global fan base too.


Ten fold.

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Originally Posted By: RedsforChampions
They had to pay for their stadium, this is why they were selling their best players. Now that the stadium is paid for, they are among the highest spenders in the league, but funny enough, their fortunes on the pitch hasn't changed yet.


They have adopted a "one highly paid player per year" system by the looks of things... wish we would do the same with a real top player(although we still spend a lot) but it still remains to be seen if it will be enough for them to close the gap on the big boys, or whether they'll remain languishing on the coat tails with us and Spurs.... or just in their own little group of one crazy

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Originally Posted By: Duncan_Donut
Originally Posted By: bigredkop
I don't know why you keep adding the comparison to the top teams? I've never ever said Arsenal are there, in fact multiple times now I've said they are not. They quite clearly aren't cause they aren't winning trophies. And the only reasoning anyones been able to give (as you are all ignoring the opinion of our top target and a class professional footballer) is that it would be a bit weird to have 1 team in a tier of their own. And fair enough that is semantics then isn't it. But qualifying year after year in the Champions league clearly puts you ahead of a team that has one good season in the eyes of those who matter. Top class footballers. They lose their best players regularly so they aren't at the top table, but I have said that from second one so it doesn't add anything to this particular debate.

Would I take being in Arsenal's position over ours? Finishing 2nd once in the last 5 years, or Champions league every season, a brand new modern stadium, with the footing that puts you on? Damn straight I would. It's a cut above where we are. If you want to give that the word tier or not doesn't really matter, because mine and your opinions don't matter what word you would give to it. Players like Sanchez' (opinions) do, and he's already given his opinion on it and chosen the team who has regular Champions league football. There is no getting away from this fact, and the fact that it separates them from us whether you want to give that the name 'tier' or not.


* Very strange to have one team in a "group" of their own - they are closer to us than they are to the big boys so that's why they have been grouped accordingly.

* Ahead, true... but very much in the same boat in the overall scheme of things - targets for each new season for example, even players to an extent (not that we often go head to head with them for players)

* You would take qualifying for the Champs league every year but never really "competing in it" over our Champions league win we had recently, not to mention the final two seasons later???

* They signed a very good player in Sanchez and can't fault him for his choice... but you've really got to stop banging on like he's some world beater whistle If he was that good he would be plying his trade at one of the really top clubs - and or have Arsenal punching above their weight... seems to me they're struggling a little this season even with him.



Firstly, it was very amusing to see you write 'jesus this thread's still going' and then proceed to write several more posts that obviously continue it. Thank you for that little giggle.

It might be strange to have 1 club in a tier of their own but that's how the players seem to see it and they're who matter.

Targets for each new season. Wenger: We want to win the title. Rodgers: Our target was top 4. So as you've said yourself we should go on what they say, and there is obviously a disparity.

Our Champions league win a decade ago you mean? No I wouldn't. But I thought we were talking about modern and current football no? If not perhaps we should throw Nottingham Forrest into the mix? Which tier are they in?

The last point has true points in it but silly as it's completely unrelated to what we are discussing. The disparity between Arsenal and Liverpool. Yes if he was a world beater he would play for one of the top teams, but again I've never said Arsenal are but you keep using that in your argument which is very strange indeed if that's all you have, tells you something whistle

He chose Arsenal for regular Champions league football, he's arguably the best player in the premier league this season, he was a top player who several big European names wanted, he saw Arsenal a tier above us and chose them. That's the facts of the matter, whether he's a world beater, or how they measure up to Chelsea or Man City is utterly irrelevant to the disparity between Liverpool and Arsenal. yet it's the only point you've repeatedly made. Also if you don't like him, how about our main man Suarez who said he was ready to hand in a transfer request if Liverpool didn't let him go to Arsenal? Which our owner has said he then ignored. So two top players (irrelevant if they're world beaters) that both teams wanted, wanted to be in the team with regular Champions league football. That is far more telling than any opinion me or you could ever type on a forum.

Again you can measure the disparity however you want, you can call it whatever you want, tier, level, whatever. It's a disparity because they have regular Champions league football if nothing else, and that disparity is clearly in the minds of top players. A rose by any other name and all that, you don't have to call it a tier, but it's the same thing.

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Originally Posted By: Duncan_Donut
Originally Posted By: RedsforChampions
They had to pay for their stadium, this is why they were selling their best players. Now that the stadium is paid for, they are among the highest spenders in the league, but funny enough, their fortunes on the pitch hasn't changed yet.


They have adopted a "one highly paid player per year" system by the looks of things... wish we would do the same with a real top player(although we still spend a lot) but it still remains to be seen if it will be enough for them to close the gap on the big boys, or whether they'll remain languishing on the coat tails with us and Spurs.... or just in their own little group of one crazy


Well if they stay in their little group of one, they'll at least be able to continue playing on the biggest stage in club football every year, and recruit this 'one top player per year' system they seem to have adopted. I can't see them matching the big boys, but if they continue to get to play in a competition we've been in once in 5 years but us and spurs are desperate for every year. The one that all the players care about. The one that Suarez said he wanted to leave for 2 seasons ago (remember you spoke about Arsenal losing their best players to a team in a higher tier), yeah that one. But supposedly 'languishing' with two teams who are desperate to be their regularly, like already Arsenal are crazy

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Sigh*

Iironically, seems you're in your own tier of one on this one wink

Last edited by Duncan_Donut; 26/01/15 08:42 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Duncan_Donut
Sigh*

Iironically, seems you're in your own tier of one on this one wink


With Suarez and Sanchez in fact, good company I'd say wink

Last edited by bigredkop; 26/01/15 08:44 PM.
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Not unlike Henry, Anelka, Fabregas, Song, Clichy, Nasri, Van persie, Kolo Toure, Adebyor, Alexander Hleb & Flamini once they fled lol laugh

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