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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128 |
Actually everyone knows arsenal don't do massive wages or huge name signings, or that they didn't prior to Ozil and Sanchez.
I agree Chelsea and city were not the powerhouses then, but look at the Bundesliga or LA liga. Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Real have always been the powerhouses and big spenders just like Chelsea and city are now, however Valencia, Athletic and Dortmund have all managed to win the league...
Its possible once off, not continuously though. So Arsenal obviously now do big wages. (Ozil & Sanchez) Are we now expected to accept the odd challenge for the title under these owners, is that the height of our ambition. They have succeeded in reducing our wage bill but our replacements earn less because they are lesser players. You get what you pay for, so how anyone can be surprised at our current position amazes me. If you buy average players, paying them average wages, you will have an average team. I am sure we now look great on a spreadsheet, but we are awful on the pitch. These owners have no ambition for our club, but how can we be surprised, they are first and foremost, baseball fans.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,908
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,908 |
FSG may not want to pay for the title but they wouldn't mind winning it if comes on the cheap. It's not like an FSG agent had laid the banana peel for SG to slip on.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381 |
No they don't want to win the PL, they've given empty words but not taken any action to suggest that's where they want to be. It's quite obvious they have no interest in returning Liverpool to the top, they just want it profitable and towards the Champions league places.
Also ninja you've made a big error there, "last season's effort didn't completely disprove the fact that you have to spend massive on wages to win the PL", who won the PL? Was it Man City? The team with the highest wage bill?? Yeah I thought so. Having the third best player in the world, and everyone playing out of their skin due to momentum (as well as all the big teams having poor seasons) led to a perfect storm of us coming second, not winning, coming second. That multitude of things going in one teams favour is unlikely to happen again anytime soon, AND we still didn't win sh!t. So it does in fact add further evidence that big bucks will always win it in this modern age. Were arsenal's invincibles on massive wages? Were they all mega million signings? Arsenal's invincibles were on massive wages yes, 3rd highest in the league 03/04. Also you're really scraping the barrel if you're having to go back an entire decade, in which time the football landscape has massively changed with both Chelsea, Man City, and now Utd all paying ridiculous wages and fees to secure top talent (not that the analogy helped you anyway as it was incorrect to start with). And where have they been in that time? Even whilst somewhat competing, more so than us anyway, with both wages (and transfer fees of late). If you want to win the PL, you're only gonna do that with big bucks short of a perfect storm of events going your way, and even with that we failed at the last hurdle. FSG have bought middle of the road players every single time except when Suarez was cut price, they have also refused to pay big wages to secure top talent, now all of that is alright from a business stand point because they don't wanna be a sugar daddy, but don't then lie to fans and say we wanna put you back on top. Nothing FSG has done has suggested they actually want to do that. Everything they're doing suggests they want a more lucrative Spurs.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381 |
Actually everyone knows arsenal don't do massive wages or huge name signings, or that they didn't prior to Ozil and Sanchez.
What is this nonsense? Arsenal have regularly paid high wages through their successful period, not necessarily the top but certainly competitive at the high end of their structure. Yes they had smaller outlay on transfers, but everyone used to say they managed to get these good players by offering bigger wages to slightly lesser known stars (i.e. not the best of the best). They have always had a wage structure that outstrips ours at the top end even when they were paying off their stadium though it did take a dip, and what happened when it dipped? They haven't won anything of note during that time.
Last edited by bigredkop; 08/01/15 01:24 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381 |
I agree that's what it takes to win it on a continuous basis but not once off. Also, wages had nothing to do with who won it last season. If anything it was Henderson's red card and Gerrard's slip that cost us, not wages..unless if you can prove Hendo would not have got a red card and Stevie wouldn't have slipped had they been on higher wages, you can go on all you want but you wont convince you have to have a massive wage bill to win the league once off. It was you who brought up a ridiculous analogy of last year which actually disproved your point. No one is saying if hendo earned more last year we would have one the title, if we attracted better players with higher wages then we would probably have won the title. Like I said with a perfect storm, someone else might have a chance. I don't know about you, but I'd like owners who want to see us regularly competing for the title. And as everyone has already said that, bigger wages for better players will do that.
Last edited by bigredkop; 08/01/15 01:23 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128 |
I agree that's what it takes to win it on a continuous basis but not once off. Also, wages had nothing to do with who won it last season. If anything it was Henderson's red card and Gerrard's slip that cost us, not wages..unless if you can prove Hendo would not have got a red card and Stevie wouldn't have slipped had they been on higher wages, you can go on all you want but you wont convince you have to have a massive wage bill to win the league once off. It was you who brought up a ridiculous analogy of last year which actually disproved your point. No one is saying if hendo earned more last year we would have one the title, if we attracted better players with higher wages then we would probably have won the title. Like I said with a perfect storm, someone else might have a chance. I don't know about you, but I'd like owners who want to see us regularly competing for the title. And as everyone has already said that, bigger wages for better players will do that. If our owners had strengthened in January last season, we would not have been having a conversation about nearly winning the title.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,908
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,908 |
I agree that's what it takes to win it on a continuous basis but not once off. Also, wages had nothing to do with who won it last season. If anything it was Henderson's red card and Gerrard's slip that cost us, not wages..unless if you can prove Hendo would not have got a red card and Stevie wouldn't have slipped had they been on higher wages, you can go on all you want but you wont convince you have to have a massive wage bill to win the league once off. It was you who brought up a ridiculous analogy of last year which actually disproved your point. No one is saying if hendo earned more last year we would have one the title, if we attracted better players with higher wages then we would probably have won the title. Like I said with a perfect storm, someone else might have a chance. I don't know about you, but I'd like owners who want to see us regularly competing for the title. And as everyone has already said that, bigger wages for better players will do that. Where are they?
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381 |
I agree that's what it takes to win it on a continuous basis but not once off. Also, wages had nothing to do with who won it last season. If anything it was Henderson's red card and Gerrard's slip that cost us, not wages..unless if you can prove Hendo would not have got a red card and Stevie wouldn't have slipped had they been on higher wages, you can go on all you want but you wont convince you have to have a massive wage bill to win the league once off. It was you who brought up a ridiculous analogy of last year which actually disproved your point. No one is saying if hendo earned more last year we would have one the title, if we attracted better players with higher wages then we would probably have won the title. Like I said with a perfect storm, someone else might have a chance. I don't know about you, but I'd like owners who want to see us regularly competing for the title. And as everyone has already said that, bigger wages for better players will do that. If our owners had strengthened in January last season, we would not have been having a conversation about nearly winning the title. Very true, owners that genuinely wanted to be on top would have done.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
I'll just point put one thing...
In the past 20 years we have been amongst the highest paying clubs in terms od wages and agent fees in the EPL. Where are the titles?
Sign Reus
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595 |
THEY WILL MOST CERTAINLY HAVE EYES ON CL QUALIFICATION AS THAT IS WHERE THE BIG MONEY IS. A CLUB WITH OUR WAGE BILL AND OUTLAY ON TRANSFER FEES CAN'T AFFORD NOT TO BE IN IT.
IN TERMS OF WINNING THE PREMIER LEAGUE THOUGH, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE, IT ISN'T WORTH WINNING. IN ORDER TO WIN THE EPL, THE CLUB WOULD NEED TO SPEND A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF MONEY ON PLAYERS & AGENTS, AND OUR WAGE BILL WOULD NEED TO GO THROUGH THE ROOF. THESE ADDITIONAL COSTS FAR OUTWEIGH THE REWARDS FOR COMING TOP IN THE EPL, SO THERE IS NO BUSINESS CASE FOR IT.
The kind of money we are spending suggests that top 4 is the only objective. That is probably achievable and sustainable within our current budgets.
The fact that we are being embarrassed by the likes of west ham & southampton won't have gone un-noticed. FSG will be wondering how they are doing so well on a significantly lower budget, and I imagine that all fingers will point towards the manager.
When you look at the incomes and outlays of the current top 4, you have to wonder whether it is even possible to progress very far without breaking FFP regulations. Putting limits in place is a good idea but all it does is cements the fortunes of the top clubs and, barring a small miracle, it prevents anyone else getting a look in. Both Stanley and myself have been making that point for the last two years, and took a lot of stick here for it. However the penny that drops slowly drops steadily.
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