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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542 |
There is a third explanation there are not enough class players in that squad Yep. that's what i meant by the medium term. There should be no excuses after a reasonable settling in period. The conclusion then will be that we're not good enough because we got the wrong players. In the long term nothing matters of course because we'll all be dead  I agree 100% with this guy, we'll all be dead soon anyway so this really won't matter. I maintain the biggest problem at the moment is the midfield, whether that's all on Stevie I'm not sure. Lucas shouldn't play again, Henderson needs dropping or playing next to SG to do his running and Lallana coming in. Hopefully we'll see some of Markovic's potential soon.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
So none of you on here believe this could just be down to the fact we had a few bad days at the office and BR just got his tactics wrong? I mean, it is actually a more plausible explanation than anything else being offered up. That's highly optimistic in my opinion. I believe that the more likely short term explanation is that: 1. half the team is new. It takes time for players to understand each other and gel. Pre-season isn't enough - you need competetive games. 2. the other half of the team that isn't new is creaking: SG getting on; Migs not improving; Skrtle, Johnson, Flanno, Sturridge injuries. In the medium term, say as after we pass 10 games, if the situation is still the same then we'll know that BR has messed up big time. His name could be on a par with Kenny (2011) & Commoli If we're still in the [oops] after 10 games, he could also be out of a job. Not advocating it or saying I want it to happen but we should be much much better than we are. Yep, even if we haven't bought top players, on paper our players are much better than West Ham and Villa players. Losing against them is unacceptable.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542 |
Lovren's a great player, he didn't become sh*t overnight. Moreno's a great player, he's shown that already.
Lallana was one of the leeagues best players and hasn't had a proper chance yet.
Can looks very good, when he's not injured.
Markovic we've barely seen so shouldn't even be mentioned.
It was our strike force that terrorised defenders last season, Luis wanted to go, Dannys been injured.
Biggest problems have been Migs, SG, Lucas, Henderson, Sakho i.e last seasons players.
We can suggest BR should have bought world class players IF they were available/wanted to come, but we can't judge all sigings as average after 5 games..
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
Lovren's a great player, he didn't become sh*t overnight. Moreno's a great player, he's shown that already.
Lallana was one of the leeagues best players and hasn't had a proper chance yet.
Can looks very good, when he's not injured.
Markovic we've barely seen so shouldn't even be mentioned.
It was our strike force that terrorised defenders last season, Luis wanted to go, Dannys been injured.
Biggest problems have been Migs, SG, Lucas, Henderson, Sakho i.e last seasons players.
We can suggest BR should have bought world class players IF they were available/wanted to come, but we can't judge all sigings as average after 5 games.. How can anybody say that we lost against Villa and WH because we haven't bought world class players, how many world class players do they have? Yes against City we need world class players but not against Villa and WH, and they deserved their wins, especially WH.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279 |
No mistake in aiming high stan. Have to believe we can win things even if we can't or don't. I'm sure even the lesser teams have belief they can win things. i'm sorry fello koptalker but you might want to review this statement. I understand your sentiments and have previously posted about the need to aim high, but it has to be reasonble and sensible. given how we finished last season aiming to win the title this season was perfectly reasonable and sensible. However, such an ambition would have needed to have been backed up by an appropriate summer transfer policy, i.e. focus on the EPL; be happy to be knocked of CL at round 1 and therefore buy a few top drawer players with the title in mind. However, having seen our transfer window activity, sold Suarez and taking into account the transfer activities of rivals, I suggest that setting a public target of winning the league would be regarded as bordering on delusional.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381 |
Lovren's a great player, he didn't become sh*t overnight. Moreno's a great player, he's shown that already.
Lallana was one of the leeagues best players and hasn't had a proper chance yet.
Can looks very good, when he's not injured.
Markovic we've barely seen so shouldn't even be mentioned.
It was our strike force that terrorised defenders last season, Luis wanted to go, Dannys been injured.
Biggest problems have been Migs, SG, Lucas, Henderson, Sakho i.e last seasons players.
We can suggest BR should have bought world class players IF they were available/wanted to come, but we can't judge all sigings as average after 5 games.. Well firstly your last comment is naieve thinking. Like with every aspect of business and life, you can make informed opinions upon players with a top down approach based on their careers thus far and looking at how similar players performed when they made a move to a bigger club. Also looking at what was good about our system last year and if they have those qualities. So saying we can't say anything about a player before he's played X Amount of games for us is ridiculous and the thinking of children not adults. The playing of X games gives them a chance to prove your opinion right or wrong. Now you use the term great a few times, unlike your cant say things about a player until they've played x amount of games rubbish (despite going on to call players great so contradicting yourself massively) this is subjective so I'm not saying you're wrong. But in my opinion the term great should be reserved for players who, you know, are actually great. As opposed to good or okay or bang average. Lallana was a big fish in a small pond but embodies nothing about what was good with us last year. Way too slow and way too expensive for an average player. Marko again too expensive but he is more likely to fit the system lets hope he isn't a let down as there were better players for his price but he's a prospect. Cann looks good, Valencia of utd tore him apart for his former club at left back but he's looked stronger in the middle so I'm excited about him but when you spend over 100 million you want more than prospects. You want to consolidate your position in the top 4. Not have more average players for the squad.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
No mistake in aiming high stan. Have to believe we can win things even if we can't or don't. I'm sure even the lesser teams have belief they can win things. i'm sorry fello koptalker but you might want to review this statement. I understand your sentiments and have previously posted about the need to aim high, but it has to be reasonble and sensible. given how we finished last season aiming to win the title this season was perfectly reasonable and sensible. However, such an ambition would have needed to have been backed up by an appropriate summer transfer policy, i.e. focus on the EPL; be happy to be knocked of CL at round 1 and therefore buy a few top drawer players with the title in mind. However, having seen our transfer window activity, sold Suarez and taking into account the transfer activities of rivals, I suggest that setting a public target of winning the league would be regarded as bordering on delusional. I don't see why my statement isn't reasonable. Didn't say we would win it or even that I thought we could. Just that we should aim to at the start or what's the point?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
Lovren's a great player, he didn't become sh*t overnight. Moreno's a great player, he's shown that already.
Lallana was one of the leeagues best players and hasn't had a proper chance yet.
Can looks very good, when he's not injured.
Markovic we've barely seen so shouldn't even be mentioned.
It was our strike force that terrorised defenders last season, Luis wanted to go, Dannys been injured.
Biggest problems have been Migs, SG, Lucas, Henderson, Sakho i.e last seasons players.
We can suggest BR should have bought world class players IF they were available/wanted to come, but we can't judge all sigings as average after 5 games.. Well firstly your last comment is naieve thinking. Like with every aspect of business and life, you can make informed opinions upon players with a top down approach based on their careers thus far and looking at how similar players performed when they made a move to a bigger club. Also looking at what was good about our system last year and if they have those qualities. So saying we can't say anything about a player before he's played X Amount of games for us is ridiculous and the thinking of children not adults. The playing of X games gives them a chance to prove your opinion right or wrong. Now you use the term great a few times, unlike your cant say things about a player until they've played x amount of games rubbish (despite going on to call players great so contradicting yourself massively) this is subjective so I'm not saying you're wrong. But in my opinion the term great should be reserved for players who, you know, are actually great. As opposed to good or okay or bang average. Lallana was a big fish in a small pond but embodies nothing about what was good with us last year. Way too slow and way too expensive for an average player. Marko again too expensive but he is more likely to fit the system lets hope he isn't a let down as there were better players for his price but he's a prospect. Cann looks good, Valencia of utd tore him apart for his former club at left back but he's looked stronger in the middle so I'm excited about him but when you spend over 100 million you want more than prospects. You want to consolidate your position in the top 4. Not have more average players for the squad. We do not have a team to match Chelsea and City, but Villa and WH, common? BR needs to take all the blame mainly because of our defensive frailties.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279 |
No mistake in aiming high stan. Have to believe we can win things even if we can't or don't. I'm sure even the lesser teams have belief they can win things. i'm sorry fello koptalker but you might want to review this statement. I understand your sentiments and have previously posted about the need to aim high, but it has to be reasonble and sensible. given how we finished last season aiming to win the title this season was perfectly reasonable and sensible. However, such an ambition would have needed to have been backed up by an appropriate summer transfer policy, i.e. focus on the EPL; be happy to be knocked of CL at round 1 and therefore buy a few top drawer players with the title in mind. However, having seen our transfer window activity, sold Suarez and taking into account the transfer activities of rivals, I suggest that setting a public target of winning the league would be regarded as bordering on delusional. I don't see why my statement isn't reasonable. Didn't say we would win it or even that I thought we could. Just that we should aim to at the start or what's the point? I guess the difference between us is in the detail. The discussion rose from Stan's point about him thunking a couple of weeks ago that we should be targetting the title and I believe he meant this season. Given our transfer business, I suggest that that is wholly unrealistic. In this context, the statement 'Have to believe we can win things even if we can't or don't.' is i suggest unreasonable. It's like burying your head in the sand. Of course we aspire to win the win league. But... is it a realistic target this season? No. Should the club be making public statements about our aim being to target or win the league this season? No. Should fans expect it this season? No. Is it possible we could win it? Yes. Is it likely? No The players should be aware of the expectations of the team and where we want to be but beyond that I suppose they should simply be drummed in with the philosphy that they need to take each game at a time and that the only important game is the next one.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,104
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,104 |
I don't think that we spent too bad, we bought some really good players (even if we did over spend on a few of them), the problem for me is that we didn't get that out and out DM that we've been screaming out for. Our midfield is just not cutting it.
We need Allen, Hendo and Gerrard together because when Allen and Hendo play alongside Gerrard they cover him and allow him to move the ball around and Allen also allows Hendo to get around a bit more. But with Lucas, he's lost it which has been going on for a while now.
I think we should solely set out for one good DM in Jan. But if Isco is wanting a move, go for him too and make it a priority to find clubs for Lucas and Johnson. We didn't buy any really good players. Not a single one. That's why we are already talking about January despite having spent well over 100 million. We bought average players. I've been saying that we need an all out DM for years now, so it isn't anything new for me. We covered every other position that I personally thought we needed cover for, maybe not with the players I would have gone for, but good ones none the less. We have bought some really good players too imo. Moreno is great so far, Mario is a very good player, Lallana was one of the best attacking mids in the league last season and was voted in Team of the season. Manquillo, Can and Marko are good with the potential to be great, and we got Lambert for a bargain. The only player I'm not sold on is Lovren, just a waste of money, could have bought much better for less, he's been the reason behind our poor defense I'm my opinion. I actually want Rogers to bring it back to the team we were playing last season, except with Manquillo, Moreno and Mario (for Suarez). Migs Manquillo-Skrtel-Sakho-Moreno Allen-Gerrard-Hendo Sterling Sturridge-Mario
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