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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564 |
I talked about this on jj's thread about the Southampton game, but I think this warrants a thread of its own (and apparently the old tread is wrecked anyway). For some reason, everyone seems to think that Mignolet's distribution is poor, but it's simply not true. Here's a statistical comparison to all of our rivals's keepers last year (I also included Bregovic because so many people rate him). Here are squawka's results:
Player----- Pass Ac. --Pass completion -----Dist. Acuracy
Mignolet ----70% --------11.82 ----------69%
Howard -----60% --------10.22 ----------68%
Lloris -------47% ---------6.84 ----------53%
De Gea ------56% ---------8.03 ----------62%
Cech --------52% ---------6.91 ----------60%
Begovic ------55% ---------8.25 ----------65%
Hart ---------50% ---------6.16 ----------66%
Szczesny -----65% ---------9.43 ----------69%
Not only did mignolet make more passes per game than any other top keeper, he had a higher accuracy to boot. The only stat that any of the other match him in is Szczesny's distribution accuracy, and Migs edges him in the other two categories. He has some trouble with crosses (which I think will improve), but he is a top shot stopper and a top distributer. I don't think the stats give a good picture because we play differently, ie, most of the time we play from the keeper making short passes to the defender. Now if in other teams they kick the ball forward much more than us, the accuracy would be lower Personally, I think long balls from the keeper are a waste of possession. I'd much rather keep the ball and build from the back. However, Migs makes MORE forward passes than any other keeper. For the record, his average pass length is 35 meters. Admittedly, this is shorter than most of his counterparts, but it's still nearly 40 yards. -----------Total passes- successful passes forward passes Mignolet -----639-------------449 ----------633 Howard ------615-------------378 ----------618 Lloris --------537-------------253 ----------537 De Gea -------535-------------297 ----------535 Cech ---------454--------------235 ---------453 Begovic -------483 -------------264 ---------483 Hart ----------391--------------191 --------380 Szczesny -------539-------------349---------537
Last edited by redordead13; 20/08/14 02:53 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 163
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 163 |
I dont think he is as bad as a lot of people make him out to be, however those stats aren't really very accurate because of the type of football we play.
Migs % are so high because he plays so many simple short passes at the back with center backs and gets the ball a fair bit when players are under pressure, and yes his short passing, even though awkward is fine.
Its his long kicking and thorowing that are the issue, i would be interested to see the stats of his % both under and over a certain distance.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
Stats or no stats, he doesn't fill me with confidence. Don't know why, he just doesn't. He's an OK keeper but I feel if we want to be a top team again we will need better than him long term.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,205
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,205 |
Stats or no stats, he doesn't fill me with confidence. Don't know why, he just doesn't. He's an OK keeper but I feel if we want to be a top team again we will need better than him long term. I think we're all sort of in that boat. I'm going to hold fire and see how things work out this season, see if he improves or becomes a liability before I make my mind up on him.
Last edited by Duncan_Donut; 20/08/14 10:31 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,886
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,886 |
Stats or no stats, he doesn't fill me with confidence. Don't know why, he just doesn't. He's an OK keeper but I feel if we want to be a top team again we will need better than him long term. +1
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381 |
What I want to know is where this fallacy came from? I mean, is it just because he's not Pepe Reina? He's not quite as good with the ball at his feet, but he's not bad with it by any stretch. Well, and playing devils advocate here, but perhaps you're missing the point and going a bit gun ho without reading into what some people are criticizing him for. I must admit I am surprised by those statistics, though I would expect him to have a higher pass completion rate than most of those keepers as we play a lot around the back and that includes the goal keeper. But what you're missing is the criticism of how useful his distribution is. Often his long kick to a full back not really in space so they have to 1. try and control it (doesn't register as an incomplete pass) if they get tackled soon after controlling it in a difficult position, and inevitably have to play it back when there were smarter options elsewhere (de gea is farrrrr better in this respect). Now I'm not a massive hater of his distribution, its decent and certainly not the area of his game that I'd want to pick out for criticism if I could choose only one (command of area/crosses), but you've gone hard cause you have some numbers whilst the bulk of the criticism seems to have flown over your head. The utility of his distribution at the weekend was, in my opinion, poor.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381 |
I talked about this on jj's thread about the Southampton game, but I think this warrants a thread of its own (and apparently the old tread is wrecked anyway). For some reason, everyone seems to think that Mignolet's distribution is poor, but it's simply not true. Here's a statistical comparison to all of our rivals's keepers last year (I also included Bregovic because so many people rate him). Here are squawka's results:
Player----- Pass Ac. --Pass completion -----Dist. Acuracy
Mignolet ----70% --------11.82 ----------69%
Howard -----60% --------10.22 ----------68%
Lloris -------47% ---------6.84 ----------53%
De Gea ------56% ---------8.03 ----------62%
Cech --------52% ---------6.91 ----------60%
Begovic ------55% ---------8.25 ----------65%
Hart ---------50% ---------6.16 ----------66%
Szczesny -----65% ---------9.43 ----------69%
Not only did mignolet make more passes per game than any other top keeper, he had a higher accuracy to boot. The only stat that any of the other match him in is Szczesny's distribution accuracy, and Migs edges him in the other two categories. He has some trouble with crosses (which I think will improve), but he is a top shot stopper and a top distributer. I don't think the stats give a good picture because we play differently, ie, most of the time we play from the keeper making short passes to the defender. Now if in other teams they kick the ball forward much more than us, the accuracy would be lower Personally, I think long balls from the keeper are a waste of possession. I'd much rather keep the ball and build from the back. However, Migs makes MORE forward passes than any other keeper. For the record, his average pass length is 35 meters. Admittedly, this is shorter than most of his counterparts, but it's still nearly 40 yards. -----------Total passes- successful passes forward passes Mignolet -----639-------------449 ----------633 Howard ------615-------------378 ----------618 Lloris --------537-------------253 ----------537 De Gea -------535-------------297 ----------535 Cech ---------454--------------235 ---------453 Begovic -------483 -------------264 ---------483 Hart ----------391--------------191 --------380 Szczesny -------539-------------349---------537 Again, to play devils advocate, whilst you once again have found some numbers you've used them without thinking about how useful they are. Gerrard coming back to pick up the ball from ming with his back to the opposition half where he then has to pass back or sideways is a forward pass for mingolet. That stat means next to nothing. Once again, don't think mings distribution is that bad at all, just your use of some numbers you've found and the conclusions you seem to think you can draw from them.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595 |
I talked about this on jj's thread about the Southampton game, but I think this warrants a thread of its own (and apparently the old tread is wrecked anyway). For some reason, everyone seems to think that Mignolet's distribution is poor, but it's simply not true. Here's a statistical comparison to all of our rivals's keepers last year (I also included Bregovic because so many people rate him). Here are squawka's results:
Player----- Pass Ac. --Pass completion -----Dist. Acuracy
Mignolet ----70% --------11.82 ----------69%
Howard -----60% --------10.22 ----------68%
Lloris -------47% ---------6.84 ----------53%
De Gea ------56% ---------8.03 ----------62%
Cech --------52% ---------6.91 ----------60%
Begovic ------55% ---------8.25 ----------65%
Hart ---------50% ---------6.16 ----------66%
Szczesny -----65% ---------9.43 ----------69%
Not only did mignolet make more passes per game than any other top keeper, he had a higher accuracy to boot. The only stat that any of the other match him in is Szczesny's distribution accuracy, and Migs edges him in the other two categories. He has some trouble with crosses (which I think will improve), but he is a top shot stopper and a top distributer. dont have to convince me i like the lad he is a very top keeper and he won liverpool 3 points on sunday especially his save on to the bar . Well you’re easily impressed Faz, the shot was straight at him, all he had to do was put his hands up as you’d expect him to do. Of course he needed to be quick, but would you expect to find a first choice keeper in a top PL team who didn’t have quick reflexes? If he’d missed that ball he’d be hard pressed to get a job in the championship imo.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444 |
so you think that save that he tipped on to the bar in the 2nd half winning the points for liverpool was an easy save plus the two very good stops in the first half especially the one the wind caught nearly taking it in were easy , well sorry it wasnt easy , migno is a very good young keeper who will get better .
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,564 |
I'm with you on this one, Faz. Maybe they don't remember how terrible Reina's shot stopping got.
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