KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Stato's Five & Five Moments [Game 2]

"The grass is always greener!"

It also depends on where the foul is taken.

I think he often makes his clumpsy fouls in situations where they could have been avoided, and just outside our pen area.

Two fouls... Both a week ago... One was in a semi-dangerous area. About 25 yards out to the left of our goal. The earlier foul in the game (for the record these 2 fouls happened in the Stoke game), happened on the half way line. So no... I don't agree. Statistically, he is not all that dissimilar in fouling to many other players that play DM, and his record shows his fouls aren't primarily in dangerous areas. You're entitled to an opinion, but it is not based much evidence-wise.

2 fouls? Check again mate, that database perhaps wasn't updated properly when you had a look there!!

In reality Lucas has so far conceded 5 fouls, of which 2 in the Stoke game and 3 in the Villa game yesterday.

Evidence for my opinion? I rest my case!

And for the record: I don't think Lucas is that poor. He is a good squad player IMO, but can't see him as a starter in a team aspiring for CL footie - never mind winning CL and/or EPL.

Where were they?! If you're going to criticise me for mentioning number with comparison/detail, you can't do the same back without looking like a 'crit.

And if you can't see him starting then that is on you. He is in my top 5 DMs in the league, so there are very few teams he wouldn't make.

Lucas is an easy target, he is never a DM, more of a link man, much rather see him in the opposition half rather than his own, he hasn't got the positional skills to be a top class DM but he will do for now.

First of all I don't need to do anything, but post my opinions. Or do you dictate the rules on this forum?

Secondly it wasn't me who started digging out stats in detail from the official EPL web site to back my opinion - you did.

My problem with Lucas is that he is mainly a defensive player (which is a bit strange because he started his career as an OCM in Gremio). If you want to play 4-3-3 (BR´s preferred formation) it is never an advantage to have a player in the line up, who doesn't contribute anything (or only little) going forward.

In order to have good use for such a player you need to play 4 lines as in for example 4-2-3-1. In this kind of formation players like Lucas can prosper.

If we can't find a versatile player who can play both ways, then I can agree to an extent that Lucas might be a possible solution for us. But seeing how SG is developing into a very well disciplined DM who also can join in the attack and at set pieces, I can't really find a place for Lucas in the starting line up atm. (In a year or two though, I certainly hope we have found ourselves a good replacement for SG)

With both SG, Lucas and Henderson (who also seems to be much more versatile than Lucas) in the line up I feel that we have sacrificed too many creative options. We seem to be a bit unbalanced and slow in the attack IMO.

I simply like versatile midfield players more than the one dimensional type (for example Mascherano)...

All I said it was it was on you, because I rate him highly...

I gave you a stat, and you said I hadn't covered the entirity of your argument with it. Then I did. Now you've just plucked another obscure fact. So try again if that is how you want to treat my argument.

BRs 4-3-3 has a lot of variations. To suggest a pure DM can't work in it shows you really don't realise how versaile BR has made the formation, because it is quite clear that having a midfielder who attacks from deeper (up to and not inside the box) is certainly part of one of the game-plans.

"In order to have good use of such a player.." Are you kidding?! Suddenly you know that DMs can only play in a formation of 4 lines... When so many managers have used DMs in more than 4 and been succesful. A 4-4-2 Diamond, for example, has 5 lines, and a DM is essential...

SG was poor yesterday and gave the ball away just as much as Lucas. He also made poor passes when we did attack, putting even more pressure on Lucas being left alone sat in front of the defence. So criticising Lucas for a foul when he was left to battle alone, and not fairly offering blame to others seems a bit off to me, but hey its just an opinion. I don't run the place as you rightly pointed out.

Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson are 3 different types of players; given that Gerrard has been scoring and assisting goals in and around the box, and Henderson's second position is right midfield/wing, and Lucas is more involved in driving the team forward than he is given credit for.

Lucas can play AM, CM and DM, even if BR and predecessors have chosen to only utilise him as a DM. Again... That is 3 positions in our 10 man outfield position. Not bad, considering Coutinho doesn't play anymore than that. AM, W and SS. Should we jump on his back about his versatility too?

For the record... Neil Ashton, Daily Mail:

"Making Lucas my player of the weekend. He was outstanding for Liverpool yesterday."