KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Could you please explain?

morse code

I think there are pros and cons on both sides, and some on each side are unjustifiable proclamations about where the club is going and how it has worked.

I've been proclaimed an FSG lover for, what I feel at least, is speaking from a view that was as close as I could to being objective.

I agree with sixtiesred in one sense. It does make sense to alter the philosophy AFTER CL qualification has been obtained. At least then the adjustments internally are to both progress and maintain position.

In another way though... For all the money that can be thrown at the club, there is no guarantee. I go back to what I said about how you perceive the owners and their investment in the club. A lot of people expect them to fund from their own pockets... I understand the want for owners who are fans, and willing to lay everything on the line for the good of the club, but few owners like that are about, and often, these are the ones that suffer long-term. They are often sugar-daddys (who can potentially lose interest) or they are fans (who often work with their heart and not their head).

So for me, I think FSG did try to catch up quickly. Comolli and Dalglish picked out wrong players for huge fees. Being honest, I thought they were good (albeit expensive) deals, up until we sold Torres for Carroll. At the time, it made sense to sell an under-performing asset, but to me, looking back, that was a mistake.

So... if they did invest heavily (even throwing an extra £50m in the club to cover some short-term investments), and that didn't work, why would they keep doing it? With KD & DC or others? As a moral you've all learnt as kids, you learn from your mistakes...

So basically, you're either saying throwing money at it until it works is the way, but KD and DC were the wrong people. That foundation means you are against FSG now for changing.Or you're saying KD and DC may have been the right people (investment value is irrelevent), in which case blame FSG. Or you're saying that the change in the philosophy is good, but BR is the wrong guy, in which case you want to hate FSG for hiring him. Or you're saying he is the right guy and the right philosophy.

Basically, their constant alterations make them prime for hating, because there are many more aspects that have changed than have been retained, and as history tells us, change is often criticised at the time, irrespective of its potential long-term benefits. Whether that be scientists standing alone with the right answer, or artists becoming famous for incredible work post-humously, and not selling work well while alive, or new technology that people think is useless, and ends up being a mainstay in homes, offices and everyday life.

For me, I think not overspending on players is a philosophy that every club trys to take, and often fails at doing. They also throw money at agents and clubs to get "the right guy" when in fact the market is very different to that. I often feel people over-exaggerate the better known players, to the point where I can now imagine the anguish if we signed another Hyypia. A guy that despite success at his previous club, was not as well known as most on here seem to desire.

This wasn't meant to turn into a long post so I apologise. All I can say is, that anybody that posted on here critising the club for over-paying on players and now criticising the club for its new transfer stance, is a hypocrit. Anybody who has cried out for a togetherness in the group that is now criticising the players we are signing and the retained/sold under BR is a hypocrit. You can't live life picking and choosing every decision independent of everything else, when you've made statements the other way so clearly.

For me, FSG have made some big mistakes. Selling and not replacing Carroll... Bringing Dalglish back on a 3 year-deal. Hiring Comolli. Not making a decision on the stadium on paper 3 years in...

But they have also learned from their own mistakes, and adopted a less single-minded approach to transfers. A reluctance to over-pay which most fans have screamed for (after so many), an investment in time for a promising manager (promising in the sense that by 40, he has made the PL, coached for more than 15 years, and worked with some of the best which in turn enforced a strategy aimed at entertaining and effective possession-based football) and bringing together a group of players working tooth and nail to fight for the cause. For all the FSG hatred, there is a lot more to it than just throwing money at transfers and crossing fingers! And for all the love of FSG, there is no doubt they acted in a very juvenile way on immediately entering the club.

I think everybody needs time, and I can understand, after 3 years, people wanting to get on the owners backs. We've fallen from the top 4, we've failed on the pitch consistently and "a long-term approach" can often be a way of over-shadowing clubs unable to do much short-term. But as owners of sports clubs, their records speak for themselves. On the field, no doubt, there is progress. Off the field, in the last year, so many changes have been made. Some of their own making, some of the previous regime. Ultimately they have changed things that haven't worked. Would fans rather they kept at it to the point where it is clear to the most ardent fan we're not on track or would you rather we changed things we could immediately see wasn't working.

To me, We are 1 year into our project. In that time, the only real mistake has been the Carroll-Dempsey saga. We have a manager that has matured fast, a transfer strategy that has bore good fruit and we have owners ready to imminently announce proposals. On top of that, we have proved to fans and the media we have money to spend, but only on people that we believe are worth it, and despite missing out on players, still appear completely invested in signing a couple of players very soon. Patience is a virtue you earn, but to me, I think it is a requirement we're just going to have to accept.

They appointed these two and they were on the board or directors who sanctioned it. So they are responsible.

But just because you make one mistake does not mean you are forever held back by it. If they really feel like that then why not sell up? Football is obviously not for them.

Of course I could see what happened with Carroll...

As a rule we were seen as a soft touch when it came to transfer fees and an extra couple of million could be added to a players fee simply because we were Liverpool. That is no longer the case.

There is no point in setting a valuation for a player and then adding "a few million" on top of that. you set the value and stick to it and try to get the player for under it.

Willian is hardly our top target considering we only went in for him recently. We bid the same as Dortmund for Miki but obviously couldn't offer him champions league.

Yes, and no one is denying they were responsible, but i dont see them being held back by it. I just dont see why they should risk making the same mistake twice when there is an alternative which has proven to be quite succesful for us lately. Since theri new approach we have signed: Coutinho, Sturridge, Toure, Aspas, Mignolet, Luis Alberto...all fantastic players and most of them undervalued at their clubs. Can you really claim Coutinho, Daniel, Toure and Aspas were not undervalued? United paid 25 mil for De Gea, is he really twice the goalie Mignolet is?

Only Coutinho and Sturridge have proved anything, we signed them in January when the season had already passed us by, are we about to see that again, i'm not saying we need to blow 50m, there is talent available and we are ignoring it and wasting time chasing players we wont pay for.

Yeah Wakka, but we dont know whats going on behind the scenes. I mean, look at the Margarejo and Sequera guys, we had no idea about them before the papers caught on. We obviously are scouting young talent from all over.

Listen Marko one thing I want to make clear is I welcome FSG's more professional approach to transfers and not allowing us to me taken for mugs. Plus I agree with getting maximum value for money. But there is a limit to that and sometimes you need to take a risk. Thats basic business principles. Look at David Levy no one is a harder negotiator but when he sees an opportunty he goes for it. I dont see that with FSG at the moment. And by the way I am an accountant so I love being careful with money but not to this extent.

Hehehe, i understand. Ok thats what i wanted to clear up, because i couldnt understand quite how anyone could criticise them for being careful. I agree sometimes a risk needs to be taken, but there is a where and a when. I dont think Mkhytaryan or Willian were those players, i think Diego Costa could have really been a huge signing in terms of what he would have added to our starting 111 and i would have risked it with him but i fear the media would have had a field day with him, like they did with Suarez.

Yarmolenko is another player i would take a risk on, i would pay slightly over the odds to secure him, but Willian was not one of those players.

Is that the brother of Daniel levy? sorry I couldn't resist.