KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Why couldn't we finish 4th?

Well isn't that a bit of a coincidence that everyone that you have spoken to in Spain has the exact opposite view to what my friends do, it seems to me that you are extremely optimistic and biasd in your opinion. Please don't make things up to suit your arguement.

Let's not kid ourselves, Aspas has had one very good season in the Spanish 2nd division and a mediocre season in the top flight and at 25 years old (26 when the season starts) he's a massive risk. He could go either way, but like my friends said he has potential, but right now is mid-table at best. Luis Alberto is an expensive non-starter based on what I've been told and will more than likely fall in to the same category as Allen and Borini.

Our club can do a lot better than this and it's very disappointing to see no ambition shown at all, it makes it worse that mid-table sides in the Premier League are buying better players than we are.

It really isn't. You do realise that Mignolet is the most expensive Goalkeeper that we have ever signed. Previously it was Reina at around 6 million.

Goalkeepers are generally cheap players. We could have found someone who has the same ability as Mignolet for half that money.

Yeah it is quite a coiincidence seeing that everything you say is explicitly anti FSG...Also you are lying, or as you would put it, twisting the facts to suit your argument. You see, Aspas didnt have a mediocre season in La liga, he actually had a fantastic season in La liga..with more influence than Messi. If you call that mediocre, you are obviously deluded.



So perhaps you should take your own advice and stop twisting the facts and spouting rubbish to suit your agenda.

Excellent, your little table proves your argument beyond doubt.

Basing your argument on your friend's opinions is laughable and I also see that we are complaining about spending too much on a goalkeeper.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I haven't even mentioned FSG, it seems that's a bit of a sensitive issue to you though, judging by your reaction.

Also, I'm not lying and I do have many friends and relatives in Spain.

Aspas didn;t have a fantastic season, it's utter bull to even compare him to Messi, more influence what does that even mean....Messi scored 60 goals, Aspas scored 12, nothing more needs to be said there.

Keep pretending that we have signed the best up and coming players as in a few months time you will secretly be cursing them.

Wow, talk about opposites in opinion.

It's easy to score more goals when you are the best player in the world plus you have Xavi, Ineista, Fabregas, Sanchez, Villa and Pedro all playing alongside you helping you out. I could imagin Aspas doubling his figures last season playing alongside that lot. But he didn't have that luxury and did well in a team that lacked quality, and as is shown helped create chances in his situation.

If Alberto is so bad, then why did Barca even bother taking him on loan? Maybe they saw something too. They don't have a lot of money, so they probably though that they had their youngsters coming through and didn't need to use their money. He could turn out crap, but to say he will isn't right yet.

What's this patronising attitude of telling me what I should and shouldn't do here, we are all giving our opinions and this is not a forum of supporting or not supporting LFC, as far as I understand we are all fans of LFC here.

I also never said that there are guarantees of a player becoming good when we pay higher fees, what I said is (and I don't even understand how you can deny this) that the risk of failure is lower when you buy a proven player or manager. In fact, the price of a player is higher because the risk you would be taking for him to be good is lower and vice versa, this is how it works in a market. Why do you think that a player is priced more expensive than another one in a market?

We can definitely be lucky and get gems by paying low and looking at the players we have bought (except the keeper), we are definitely relying on this right now (this may change if we do buy proven greats in the next few weeks). I would say, recently, only Dortmund has succeeded a few seasons with this strategy and how long they are going to do it is a question mark. Bayern's strategy is different and their chances of success according to me is way far better than Dortmund. Recently, it is only the teams who keep on investing on great players that have been successful but some have done it by spending relatively less because they have grown some players. We haven't been very successful with this neither, there hasn't been any greats since Steven Gerrard, I am not sure why this will change drastically with FSG, in Benitez time, there were a lot of talks on developing players, this is why we have an academy also By the way, all the big teams have good youth system now and they are all buying young potentials on the cheap, very often then loaning them out.

No problem to be an optimist, but, some degree of realism would help.

I agree to an extent but modern football at the level we are at demands instant success. I think you have to do a bit of both

That is not how I intended it to come across. I apologise if any offence was taken. It doesn't change my opinion that a lot of fans on here are so downbeat and pessimistic, and to me, that is how you're coming across. You have an opinion that we're trying to debate about, and you can't even suggest point by point why you think that. You have made wild assertions about clubs, which I have just taken one, looked at, analysed, and shown you it is not entirely true, and you can't accept it. To me, that is stubborn-ness, nothing to do with realism. Realism, is seeing that right now, we are amongst a group of 4 teams that with a good window, can compete for 4th. Realism, is knowing that comparing us to any team that automatically qualified for the Champions League is not realistic in the slightest. We are not at that level right now.



1. Proven players have failed in the Premier League just like unproven ones. What the club is paying for is talent against potential.
2. The selling club pricing up their own players has nothing to do with risk factors at all. They are pricing the player, most of the time, based on how they compare to other similar players, and in order to find suitable replacements/reinforcements. Again, it is subjective, not objective reasoning.
3. The price is not determined by the club purchasing him deciding whether it is a risk or not. The buying club decides on whether to spend the money on players, and therefore a risk assessment could be made, but it is not part of a discussion from the selling team at all.

Current + Perceived talent is what pricing players is based on, because every league in the world is different, and he is as unlikely/likely to success in Germany as the UK. If a player is used to pass and move football, he is not priced differently for Italian teams as Spanish. The suggestion that it is down to risk would mean it would be. Much more likely to settle into a similar style of play than a different one.



You may not think the keeper is cheap. I'm not going to try to convince you of that. But the perceived value of all players has rocketed. Keepers are making more and more of a difference in the league, so I don't think it is a surprise that we paid near £10m for him.

Dortmund's squad was built on far less money. They spent barely a penny, in a league they are struggling to offer high salaries to their own players. It has proven to most pundits and fans that with the right strategy, in a league growing and offering more finances, that you can catch up. We're not in the same predicament, because we have a far superior salary budget before we even start qualifying for Europe again.

To suggest there aren't differences in quality between the top teams in terms of Academys, is like saying there is not difference between the top 3 teams in the league squad-wise, because from the outset, they all look capable. It is plainly not true. If you can distinguish, in your own self, that one team has the best defence, another has the best wingers and another has the best midfielders, you say so. All the Academys have had mixed success. Man Utd have produced few players since Beckham that have gone on to play for the club long-term! Check out the figures if you don't believe me. They are not all good. Chelsea are much the same, and Man City have sacrificed theirs since the new owners came in. They sell on their good youth for mid-range fees, to help fund the signings of players further along the line.

We are not buying academy players anyway. Luis Alberto (and the rumoured Ilori) are perceived to be talented players that have broken through at big clubs. They have contributed successfully since they were introduced to their teams. And are playing at a league level similar to a combined Premier League/Championship.


I have tried to be as realistic with my post, with as many references to facts I know for certain, and opinions I don't feel cross to unrealistic. I am not going to say take it or leave it - an element of discussion is needed to convince me any different, not the same point posted over and over again.

I must make a note not to argue with you jmelling