|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,365
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,365 |
Fair coment Marko.
And I have to say I really no nothing about these foreign players we are signing so I await the new season and pre season with interest.
What you are saying makes a lot of sense rather this than the kenny and comoli farce. The only note of caution I would add is we simply have to get back into the champions league hard though it will be. Let's hope these new signings take us forward. The thing is with these players is that we have not seen them play, therefore the unknown can be to some exciting and others depressing. With KD and comolli signings the majority we had seen week in week out, whilst not experts we all knew that the fees were on the high side but were glad to be spending again after two years of decline. Sadly only Hendo has started to show any worth and even now is probably only worth max 10mil. His wages though are modest and he does contribute. The reason we got aspas so cheap is simple, Spain is skint and no one apart from Barca/Madrid has the ability to buy. It's similar to when we got Garcia, we got him due to a contract clause for half his value. Graham hunter has said that Aspas could be buy of the season and rates him far better than MIchu. He watches more Spanish footy than me and generally is solid on in his opinions. All in all these new players are at least good squad players, something we lack
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
Neymar was signed because he is a great player AND because Barca have a huge Brazilian fanbase, and they'd make a huge amount of that money back over the next 4/5/6 yrs in shirt sales there. Barca buys a couple of proven great players EVERY season, please don't deny this just to prove a point just check Barca transfer fees by player every year, if it was mainly because of their Brazilian fan, don't you think they would be buying Brazilians every year? I never said it wasn't because they are great players. But to be under the illusion that it can't be made for financial reasons as well would be an incredibly large over-sight. I'll provide you with proof of Barca's spending below! You say they have signed great players... Some of their signings, since 2008, have been self-funded. Suggesting you need great players to sell.. before you reinvest. If you have a winning team, obviously it is much easier to spend more lavishly - not least because players are less likely to want to leave. But lets put that aside. And to my point... Since 2008, they have signed these players that have performed: Pique 5m Dani Alves 29m + add-ons Villa 40m Mascherano 19m Fabregas 34m Alba 14m Song 19m That is 160m of talent?! Villa, Mascherano and Song haven't exactly been first choice either of late. And these that have not performed: Henrique 8m Hleb 11.8m Cacares 16.5m Pinto 0.5m Keita 14m Ibrahimovic 46m + Eto'o Maxwell 4.5m + add-ons Keirrison 14m + add-ons Chygrynskiy 25m Afellay 3m Adriano 9.5m Alexis Sanchez 26m + add-ons That is 178.8m of under-performing talent they spent money on. Notice as well, further to my previous point, that the majority of these signings are Spanish or South American!Any club out of the Champions League, and not winning titles right now would not be able to spend lavishly. Spending money can catch you up quicker, but there is no guarantee. Everton spent money incredibly wisely and closed the gap on us, when we were spending fortunes too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
|
|
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
Neymar was signed because he is a great player AND because Barca have a huge Brazilian fanbase, and they'd make a huge amount of that money back over the next 4/5/6 yrs in shirt sales there. Barca buys a couple of proven great players EVERY season, please don't deny this just to prove a point just check Barca transfer fees by player every year, if it was mainly because of their Brazilian fan, don't you think they would be buying Brazilians every year? I never said it wasn't because they are great players. But to be under the illusion that it can't be made for financial reasons as well would be an incredibly large over-sight. I'll provide you with proof of Barca's spending below! You say they have signed great players... Some of their signings, since 2008, have been self-funded. Suggesting you need great players to sell.. before you reinvest. If you have a winning team, obviously it is much easier to spend more lavishly - not least because players are less likely to want to leave. But lets put that aside. And to my point... Since 2008, they have signed these players that have performed: Pique 5m Dani Alves 29m + add-ons Villa 40m Mascherano 19m Fabregas 34m Alba 14m Song 19m That is 160m of talent?! Villa, Mascherano and Song haven't exactly been first choice either of late. And these that have not performed: Henrique 8m Hleb 11.8m Cacares 16.5m Pinto 0.5m Keita 14m Ibrahimovic 46m + Eto'o Maxwell 4.5m + add-ons Keirrison 14m + add-ons Chygrynskiy 25m Afellay 3m Adriano 9.5m Alexis Sanchez 26m + add-ons That is 178.8m of under-performing talent they spent money on. Notice as well, further to my previous point, that the majority of these signings are Spanish or South American!Any club out of the Champions League, and not winning titles right now would not be able to spend lavishly. Spending money can catch you up quicker, but there is no guarantee. Everton spent money incredibly wisely and closed the gap on us, when we were spending fortunes too. You can say what you want, but to say that Zlatan and Eto have underperformed is false to say the least. We were talking about Barca buying great players and now you've switched to their net spend for some reasons. Everton has caught up with us only because of poor management, not because we have out spent them, however, both City and Chelsea have overtaken us big time because they have invested big to build a brand they never had, in fact, Chelsea is even selling more shirts than us now. It looks you really believe we will win the league soon, I can only hope you are right because right now we have owners who want to maximise their returns by spending the least possible, it will be a miracle according to me. In the 3 years they have been around we came 6th, 8th and 7th probably the worst 3 consecutive years in the last few decades.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
|
|
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
Exactly, thez didnt buy all those players in one season. Let me ask you a question VISH...Why do you think that Barca, Bayern and such are in the position they are in now, why do you think they are so succesful? Could it be because they started applying the approach we are applying now, a long long time ago? I am not saying it is, but to me, I think it is.
Sign Reus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
|
|
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
Exactly, thez didnt buy all those players in one season. Let me ask you a question VISH...Why do you think that Barca, Bayern and such are in the position they are in now, why do you think they are so succesful? Could it be because they started applying the approach we are applying now, a long long time ago? I am not saying it is, but to me, I think it is. Definitely not Bayern who has always bought the best players in Germany in addition to develop players. Barca has been developping players internally for a very long time, but, they have also regularly invested in big players. I think we need to have a great proven manager (maybe BR will show us his greatness in the first 10 games of next season), invest big in players for not more than a couple of years and develop our youth and scouting system in parallel. This will allow us to get more revenues from champions league, EPL and merchandising and allow us to build on that. That would also allow for our best players to stay instead of looking for pastures greener. Right now it doesn't look like we have a strong ambition to get into the top 4, and the longer it takes the harder it will become. This is unfortunately what I feel, but, I hope icam wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
|
|
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
Exactly, thez didnt buy all those players in one season. Let me ask you a question VISH...Why do you think that Barca, Bayern and such are in the position they are in now, why do you think they are so succesful? Could it be because they started applying the approach we are applying now, a long long time ago? I am not saying it is, but to me, I think it is. I know you are the eternal optimist mate but us emulating bayern and barca is going some even for you
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
I included net value to prove that spending big can be as bad as spending lower. Ibrahimovic was not a success at Barca. And I only mentioned Eto'o as a mover, not as a failure/success at Barca. You can choose to dismiss the facts, but they have not made more good signings than bad by spending big. Whether you have faith in Rodgers or not is irrelevant. The facts are that every top team has a mix of high and low value purchases. If they could have been signed for less, a year earlier, then they would have been and therefore the value of the squads would be much smaller. Mkhitaryan is a high cost signing! Papadopolous would be too. So it doesn't even all match up to your claims.
You can't compare us to Barca, because we are not in the same league as them right now. But... There is no reason why we couldn't be, a long distance down the line, if we invest well. Why can you not understand that signing players for higher value doesn't guarantee success? The value is set by the selling club, not a world governing body. The value, is that which the selling club matches their value to the team, and in comparison to similar players in the world in their eyes. They can over/under-estimate that, just like anyone in the world can pay over-the-odds for one thing, and get a steal somewhere else.
You should spend less time chastising the club's transfer policy, and more time supporting the players coming in, and maybe a few of them will surprise you a bit. The way you're looking at them, they're never going to match someone in your head you believe is amongst the best in their position, and therefore they'll never impress upon you. Plus, you're measuring them to an unknown entity you can't say with full certainty is going to be great.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
|
|
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
Stanley, yes I am optimist but I am also a realist...however, as much as I am aware wqe cannot match those teams at the moment, I believe if we continue along our current path, we will be able to compete with them in 5-6 years time. I really believe it is better to splash out on 1 real quality player per transfer window and buy 2 quality younger players at a decent price, than it is to splash out 100 mil per window on big names...thats all i am saying.
Sign Reus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,270
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,270 |
we will be able to compete with them in 5-6 years time. I really believe it is better to splash out on 1 real quality player per transfer window and buy 2 quality younger players at a decent price, than it is to splash out 100 mil per window on big names...thats all i am saying. So we can compete with them in 5-6 years time by going down the route we are doing, but by then the teams around us will be buying higher quality players and whatever talent we do have will be sold, so in actual fact we will still be in the same situation, probably worse.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,270
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,270 |
Exactly, thez didnt buy all those players in one season. Let me ask you a question VISH...Why do you think that Barca, Bayern and such are in the position they are in now, why do you think they are so succesful? Could it be because they started applying the approach we are applying now, a long long time ago? I am not saying it is, but to me, I think it is. I don't ever recall Bayern taking punts on some league 2 Spanish players and paying top dollar for them either. Same goes for Barcelona. The approach these 2 teams have had over the years is developing their own players and buying the best. We're not doing that at all.
|
|
|
|
|
