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those formations work for me too, I have no preference at all about up top be it 2 forwards or 1 and 2 wide men.

Originally Posted By: van Gogh
Originally Posted By: Maxi88
we didn't hoof even when we went to a 5-3-2 or a 3-5-2 because the possession game depends on having 3 in the middle so that there is always an outlet which doesn't always happen when there's only 2 in there.

I know we disagree on many things about BR but I think that the modern game is changing and we need to have a midfield 3 capable of holding onto possession regardless of who the manager is.


Don't know about that actually! If you want to play offensive attacking football you have to use an offensive formation. Putting 5 in the midfield means compromizing either your back 4 or 2-3 men upfront. Can this really be good for you goal scoring tally and/or goal chance creation? Have a look at this article and see what you think!

"On the subject of the scalene triangles, let me put it this way. If you arrange three players in the isoceles triangle you mentioned for example, the players can easily pass the ball but so too can an intercepting opponent. Hence to quash these holding triangles forming in midfield you have seen more and more clubs loading the midfield with 5 or more players to overwhelm the opposition's triangle numbers. So if you have 5 midfielders and they form a triangle that leaves two players short of a partner and almost lost to an attacking move. To solve this problem Barcelona play in elongated scalene triangles along the left and right touchline using the left back and right back as the anchors so they are able to participate but still defend. The central midfield is actually where finishing comes from via Iniesta and Messi so very little holding play is actually in the thick of the opposing midfield. Thus 5 midfielders are easily nullified because if three or four move to the left to intercept the ball on the left scalene triangle, they leave the right triangle unmarked with possibly only one or two players to cover. If the ball is switched left to right with a long ball, you get punished. That is how Barcelona dismantled Man Utd in the CL final 2011 with very little effort. The trick is to teach defenders, midfielders and one striker to play successfully in only one third the width of the pitch for the length of the field. The only way is with a scalene formation".


Can't fully get my head around that but it kinda seems to me that it isolates the midfielders and the defenders aren't involved in the triangular passing?

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Its funny how liverpool were often 4 4 2 when t hey never had any wingers now 4 3 3 and we have two wingers

I am not a fan of 5 3 2 but as emergency measure this often works.
If a team knew before the match that another team were planing to use this formation it would be curtains, it just means defend at all costs in my view

I prefer a fluid mix of 4 5 1 (like gerard and torres) AND 4 3 3 (suarez and a striker with either suso or sterling)

Obviously in a BR lfc team where possession is key you want to have the possession at the top end of the pitch.

4 4 2 is a bit in the past although man united used it well in the 90s especially, but I think you have to know before the match that you are goig to slaughter a team to use 4 4 2 and win the premier league now.

Last edited by Toothy; 02/11/12 03:51 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Toothy
Its funny how liverpool were often 4 4 2 when t hey never had any wingers now 4 3 3 and we have two wingers

I am not a fan of 5 3 2 but as emergency measure this often works.
If a team knew before the match that another team were planing to use this formation it would be curtains, it just means defend at all costs in my view

I prefer a fluid mix of 4 5 1 (like gerard and torres) AND 4 3 3 (suarez and a striker with either suso or sterling)

Obviously in a BR lfc team where possession is key you want to have the possession at the top end of the pitch.

4 4 2 is a bit in the past although man united used it well in the 90s especially, but I think you have to know before the match that you are goig to slaughter a team to use 4 4 2 and win the premier league now.


But our 4-3-3 hardly becomes a true 4-5-1 as Sterling and Suso are true forward players and struggle with defensive duties. I think this is why we are really struggling defensively. It was the same when Borini was playing. Mirallas on Sunday torn Wisdom to pieces as he was not getting any defensive help from Suso or Sterling (don't remember who was playing on which side and Sterling changed during the match).

Now if you take United when they are playing both VP and WR, it can also be considered a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 but not both forwards playing on the same line, it's more one just behind the other.

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one massive mistake would be dropping brad jones the lad deserves to keep his place .

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Originally Posted By: Maxi88
Can't fully get my head around that but it kinda seems to me that it isolates the midfielders and the defenders aren't involved in the triangular passing?


What the author is basically saying is that:

1. on the left side of the pitch there is one triangle consisting of the left fullback, the left midfielder and the left forward.

2. on the right side of the pitch there is one triangle consisting of the right fullback, the right midfielder and the right forward.

That way Barcelona don't often get outnumbered in midfield just beacause they have only 3 players there playing the ball between them. They also have 1 forward and 1 fullback participating in the passing game - in other words always 5 players quite close to each other.

If the opposition closes them out they simply shift quickly from side to side through a cross ball, and there they have already formed their second triangle, and can continue penetrating the opposition's defence.

Don't know if that clears anything out for you, but it did for me! laugh

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Originally Posted By: fazakerley red 1
one massive mistake would be dropping brad jones the lad deserves to keep his place .


Although he has cost us a few goals and seems to have a mistake every game I will agree with this. Reina's form was abysmal, no way he should come back into the team, not just yet.


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Originally Posted By: Snakeye
Originally Posted By: fazakerley red 1
one massive mistake would be dropping brad jones the lad deserves to keep his place .


Although he has cost us a few goals and seems to have a mistake every game I will agree with this. Reina's form was abysmal, no way he should come back into the team, not just yet.


I prefer Reina. I agree Pepe has not been playing his level best but I trust him more and Jones as you say seems to have a mistake every game. May be Reina needed some rest.

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Yeah, because he too has been making at least one costly mistake a game for a long long time now.

The first that comes to mind is that horrible throw into his own net against Arsenal the fist game of the 2010/2011 season! eek

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suarez is not banned

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Originally Posted By: van Gogh
Originally Posted By: Maxi88
we didn't hoof even when we went to a 5-3-2 or a 3-5-2 because the possession game depends on having 3 in the middle so that there is always an outlet which doesn't always happen when there's only 2 in there.

I know we disagree on many things about BR but I think that the modern game is changing and we need to have a midfield 3 capable of holding onto possession regardless of who the manager is.


Don't know about that actually! If you want to play offensive attacking football you have to use an offensive formation. Putting 5 in the midfield means compromizing either your back 4 or 2-3 men upfront. Can this really be good for you goal scoring tally and/or goal chance creation? Have a look at this article and see what you think!

"On the subject of the scalene triangles, let me put it this way. If you arrange three players in the isoceles triangle you mentioned for example, the players can easily pass the ball but so too can an intercepting opponent. Hence to quash these holding triangles forming in midfield you have seen more and more clubs loading the midfield with 5 or more players to overwhelm the opposition's triangle numbers. So if you have 5 midfielders and they form a triangle that leaves two players short of a partner and almost lost to an attacking move. To solve this problem Barcelona play in elongated scalene triangles along the left and right touchline using the left back and right back as the anchors so they are able to participate but still defend. The central midfield is actually where finishing comes from via Iniesta and Messi so very little holding play is actually in the thick of the opposing midfield. Thus 5 midfielders are easily nullified because if three or four move to the left to intercept the ball on the left scalene triangle, they leave the right triangle unmarked with possibly only one or two players to cover. If the ball is switched left to right with a long ball, you get punished. That is how Barcelona dismantled Man Utd in the CL final 2011 with very little effort. The trick is to teach defenders, midfielders and one striker to play successfully in only one third the width of the pitch for the length of the field. The only way is with a scalene formation".

That quote on the Barca version of tika-taki put it in a nutshell van, our problem is we dont have the players who can consistently play this style, nor do we have a striker who doesn't need a dozen chances to put the ball in the net regardless of the quality of those chances. A feature of our recent games has been the congestion in midfield/third quarter and that is because of our inability to properly form and reform those scalene triangles on the right and left touchlines. The answer is not a return to hoof style 442 formation, We either coach and convert our existing players or we sign players who can already play this style, either way it's going to take some time I feel.

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