KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Sunderland vs Liverpool

lads i cant see how people are blaming BR, its clear his hands are tied when it comes to players he wants to bring in, so we have to give him time to get the players he has at his disposel to work, you can be sure he wanted to bring in at least 2 world class strikers and was told no way so then he asked to get at least one average striker and guess what happened ya thats right he got left down again by our owners...

Smash and Grab? We dominated the game, away, vs a fairly decent Sunderland team. Why is it when we play well it's because the other team play poorly.

It was a decent performance, not great, but things are slowly clicking together. A striker is obviously crucial but the owners wouldn't stump up in the summer and Borini's taking time to settle.

I'll be happy if we keep improving, keep our top players next summer and add a couple decent signings, one a class striker.

There's no point moaning about BR 4 games in, he'll probably get 2 years at least as long as we don't get relegated.

lets be honest we are not seriously going to get world class talent coming to a club like ours so we need to be realistic and set our standards a little lower.

the opposition teams know that all they have to do to stop us scoring is sit back get players behind the ball and counter attack,they know that if they are patient will will hand them a soft goal.we are very toothless upfront.
i would have taken suarez off at half time today,he kept giving the ball away,and i wish someone would tell him that good play doesnt always mean you have to take on every player.he seems to think that the way to show up the boo boys is to nutmeg a defender,thats great but i would rather see him lift his head and find a player in space.
we cant keep being the better team and never winning.

Whilst you may well be right Shaggy, I still don't see a solution to getting caught high up the pitch playing this way and getting caught on the counter.

I notice first half today we were playing a lot deeper at the back (not sure if this is a tinkering by BR) but Allen has to improve his ball distribution. He is all sideways when he should and could have passed forward.

Also, slaughtered for it or not, I actually like Borini and think it may be an adjustment thing to the EPL.

Two points more than I expected at this stage. Now comes the big one.

Sometimes reading stuff on this forum makes me want to smash things.

Like reading "we are too vulnerable at the back due to this system".

System had [oops] all to do with conceding against Sunderland today. Johnson flat out positioned himself wrongly. He was in front of his man, but squared up and was in no position to move once his man glided past him. Reina also looked somewhat culpable if you ask me.

Please explain how that was a product of our system.

If there's one thing I'm a little unhappy about with the current system, however, it is that we aren't pressing well when we don't have possession. I'm more worried about that aspect than the finishing, tbh, so I hope we can improve that part of our game by a lot over the next few weeks.

P.S. guess I have to eat some crow for being too optimistic about the result of today. Don't think it would have been all too unfair if we won that affair 3-1, though.

Thought that Boroni played much better in that more central position. He had a few shots and I can see him start getting them in very soon. One was a good save also, so that was positive to see.

Thought we played worse than we have over the last two games, but still looked by far the beater team. I can see that we are looking more patient in front of goal, but not quit there yet, still a goal from open play is good and the players are getting used to the system and to each other.

For those of you saying that we should of focused on testing a centre forward instead of Allen, well, we did get a central forward and I think Allen was a must, we have been dominating the midfield because of Allen. If Lucas comes back and Allen can move forward a bit, then the goals will be more frequent. Sure we need another striker, but I can see Boroni hitting them in soon, he was much better during this game.

We've had a ard start, no doubt about that and under a new manager who had to deal with players being at the Olympics and at the Euros, and to make it even harder he wasn't appointed till halfway through the break. I'm positive and willing to give Rodgers plenty of time. He is a breath of fresh air.

To answer to your question why conceding the goal was a product of the system. You are right that it is not only the system, because on paper it works but you need the players for it.

The system says, high possession, press the opponent in their own half. With about every player in the Sunderland half, the chances of us losing the ball is very high especially as we do not have Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Fabregas and the likes (we may be, only may be have Allen but not same level not losing the ball). Therefore we lose the ball and they counter attack. Our whole mid-field is the opponent's half and our defence are near the centre of the pitch.

Any quick winger will be delighted and counter attack in a lot of space. They need may be only 3 players to hit us on the break. Who is defending against the wingers (yesterday it was Suarez, against City it was Sterling v/s Tevez.Are they good defenders? Now our centre backs are not fast at all, so they have problems to cover space, especially if they are close to the centre.

As you say, the system is not the problem, but we don't have the players for the system and have no money to buy. Against Arsenal we had 52% possession and they scored on the break. Arsenal is a team that usually have max possession but they adapted their game against us.

So in our four games thus far:

WBA score three goals. None of them were on the break. (great goal after a cleared corner, penalty, header after a cross in the box)

Manchester City score two goals. None of them were on the break. (Toure gets one after a cross from just outside the box, pepe fails to clear and Kelly dumps it to Toure. Tevez gets one on the backpass error from Skrtel)

Arsenal score two goals. One were on the break. (Podolski gets the one on the break, Cazorla gets one after a through ball from the edge of the box)
Sunderland score one goal. It wasn't on the break. (You probably remember this one)

So it wouldn't appear that we get full on owned by fast wingers that shred us to bits on the break, but rather that most of our goals come from individual mistakes (Skrtel, Reina, Kelly, Johnson, Agger, etc.)
I don't think I'd go as far as saying that our players are getting exposed by the system, though. Feel free to disagree.

It depends on our appreciation of the break. For me, if we are in possession with our midfielders in the opponents half and they nick the ball and quickly get in our half with our midfielders still running back, I refer to it as a break. No problem of not calling that a break but it results from high possession upfront (yesterday's goal, arsenal's goal, Tevez's goal). The WBA penalties were because of the will to start the possession from the back no matter what Now if you think that it is only because of our players mistakes, either our players are crap or at least for the time being they haven't/cannot adapt to the system. We can agree to disagree as we will see more very soon