KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Top 4, Suarez and Agger

Really wouldn't have the foggiest as to where the hell we'll end up this season - but I'm not personally ruling anything out.

Far too early to make predictions right now, I'm gonna reserve judgement until the December / January mark when I'll have a better idea (yeah yeah yeah "why don't I just wait until May then" )

These "where are we going to finish this season" debates are completely rediculous right now.

Yes we did sell our best players, and replaced them mostly with top half players but certainly not top 4 players. How much money did City have to spend to go from 5th to 4th? It should be pretty obvious that its much easier and much faster to go down the table than it is to climb up it. That is just an obvious fact. So there is no reaosn to think it 'should be just as easy' to get back to where we were or higher. It is far far harder.

You are right though, 'if we buy all the right players and they gel immediately we could get 4th place' well yes...but you could say that about any team. What are the chances we will buy the right players? What are the chances the right players even want to come to us? What are the chances they will all gel? I mean its just an absolute bucket load of hope which is fine to have. But there is no logic in hope, and there is no reason to think we will somehow buy 4 players that will take us back to the top, particularly when it seems as though "Liverpool have to be strategic with cash".

I don't see a lot of improvements. All we have done for the last few years is sell one player to buy another one of equal or lesser quality. There might be 1 or 2 exceptions to the rule but who have we bought recently which has been an upgrade on their predecessor?

Carroll is worse than Torres
Henderson is no better/worse than Poulsen
Borini for Kuyt? jury is out
Johnson is worse than Arbeloa
Adam is worse than Meireles
Downing is no better/worse than babel/reira


If all we are doing is spending money to appease the fans whilst not improving the team then I'd prefer it if we skipped a transfer window and 'saved up' for someone worth having.

A fool and his money.... http://thekop.liverpoolfc.com/_44000-bet-on-LFC-winning-League/blog/6265579/173471.html

Hell of a gamble.

Don't agree with all that, Carroll scored more goals last season than Torres, maybe you're stuck in or around 3 seasons ago, when Torres could play a bit.
I also think you're being too pessimistic, given that we will be a very different proposition this season with a new manager, new style of playing, Lucas back Suarez unlikely to be out for several critical games as he was last season, Gerrard likely (and already looking) to be fitter than he was when he came back after his awful injury last season. In addition we have added a new signing, (Borini) and likely to sign Allen (players known to suit BRs style of play) and possibly one or two more. Added to all that we are most unlikely to see another season as freakish in front of goal as we had last season. In my opinion that all adds up to a pretty good reason to be optimistic, for me a top 4 finish is a possibility, I don't say a probability, but it is a possibility and until it becomes impossible I'll remain optimistic.

You've got your facts wrong. Carroll did NOT score more than Torres last season. And even when Torres was firing blanks he was still playing very well and creating a lot for his team mates.
I'm not sure whether Borini suits BR's tactics as he hasn't played under him for a while. As for Allen....well, it's all well and good knowing how BR plays but I'm not sure how useful that will be when he has the likes of henderson, adam and spearing beside him!

I can't see us doing worse than last year but I can't see us doing much better either.....Here's how I think the top 8 will finish..

1st Man City - not a hope in hell of finishing above them
2nd Man Utd - see above
3rd Chelsea - fa cup winners, champions league winners and already better than us before they bought marin, hazard & oscar
4th Arsenal - finished 17 points above us with a 20+ goal difference advantage, PLUS they have bought some very good players this summer. No chance of them finishing outside the top4
5th Spurs - Finished way ahead of us and despite losing Redknapp, they still have a very good squad
6th Newcastle - no reason why would they do any worse next season
7th Liverpool - without Kenny we must surely improve but our squad is a bit thin at present
8th Everton - could be very close between us & everton. They will have Jelavic for a whole season this time around and have strengthened other areas as well.

I think you are little to down on Liverpool CarheeX, I think the players are here to finish higher, say 6th, if Rodgers can get them playing of course, they were awful against Gomel.

But Annefield, Torres '3 seasons' ago? How about a season and a half ago when he was scoring roughly 1 in 3 games? How about last season when he was a far superior player to Carroll. Ludicrous to put Carroll anywhere near Torres' quality. Even with the Spaniards lack of scoring for A SEASON AND A HALF, not 3 seasons. I think, but I could be wrong, that Torres got more goals than Carroll?

I'm a little bit in between the both of you (insert joke here), probably swaying a bit more to CarheeX because I just don't see who you think we are going to take a top 4 place off Annefield? Who is dropping out? The big 4 (chelsea instead of spurs) were all comfortably better than us squad wise and they have all so far added much better players than borini, city yet to strengthen, but seems like when they do they will do so but making us weaker. Do you think Rodgers is a miracle worker? Maybe he is, but he most probably isn't. If we finish above spurs that will be really good with the team we currently have. If we add a significant amount of strength (not just a decent player like allen to keep the ball a bit better) then maybe I'll think we SHOULD instead of could get 5th. But honestly, who is it you seem to think out of the big 4 that we could be better than over 38 games?

Torres 2011-2012: 11 goals, 49 appearances (all competitions)
Carroll 2011-2012: 9 goals, 47 apps

Very similar, all things considered. "Carroll worse than Torres"? Perhaps, but not by much. Considering Carroll is not meant to be our primary goal scorer, while Torres has that role for Chelsea, frankly I prefer our chances.

I wouldn't put money on us finishing ahead of the Manchester clubs and the gunners. Chelsea, Spurs, and Newcastle are all fair game though. Why do I think this? Because we will have a plan. Last season we had no plan and that was mainly what got between us and them. Chances of Cisse and Ba both being excellent when the other is not? Not good, I expect. Chances of Di Matteo improving on his poor performance in the EPL? Not much. Spurs ended the season badly without Adebayor's goals, and there's no guarantee that whoever they sign will improve them by more.

We will be in the mix for 4th. We might not have enough in the tank to finish in the top 4, but we will be in the mix.

Admire your optimism but how can Carroll not be considered as our primary goalscorer with a £35mil price tag?

Because he's a target man forward. His role is typically to gain possession in the final third. At his age, target man forwards are not especially reliable for a lot of goals, anything above 15 is a decent return. It's his job to create space and pressure on the defence so that others can score for the team.

There's a lot more to a footballer than his price tag, but Liverpool supporters seem to have forgotten that over the last few season.