KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Rafa must stay

Reasons:

* No guarantees that a change will improve anything

* While at least 2 senior players would welcome the change, 2 more (Torres and Reina) could leave. I know it's *could* BUT I would be very worried. However, I don't think Torres is as close to Rafa as people would expect so if Rafa did leave and if Torres was to move on, it wouldn't be because of his departure but because he feels the club is not settled to really challenge for silverware.

* Financial compensation for Rafa would come from the transfer kitty. I'm confident of that. £18m > £20m wouldn't be what it would cost, I'd guestimate around £5m but there would be other staff.

* There is nobody out there available for the job that would take it. My friend is close to Jose and he's more bothered about his reputation and Liverpool would be a gamble to him and because of the limited funds and instability, I don't think he'd take the job. I don't know of course and if there are other candidates please feel free to pull me up but please be realistic. I'm not saying there is nobody, I just can't think of anyone and you guys know your stuff better than me. Under different owners I think Jose would take it but he chose Chelsea over us, for money obviously.

* New signings including younger players could be unsettled. Maybe a weak point but I still think it merits consideration.

* Any current activity would be scrapped. Ok the new manager starts again but I still don't think it's ideal.

* I don't live in the past with history but I believe he's allowed one poor season following the European success in 2005. Now before you slate me, look at the last time we won that competition previous to that. The argue it was Ged's squad is rubbish because Ged couldn't motivate several of those players and Rafa did.

* Like it or not Rafa is one of the most wanted coaches in Europe. He's just having some incredibly bad luck. Yes he is responsible for other decisions etc but I still don't believe he's had a rub of the green at all.

* He's had to manage the club during an incredibly difficult time with Bill and Ben in charge. I'm surprised he's done what he has in all honesty.

Now you know I will not patronise anyone. I'm not "pro-Rafa" or "anti-Rafa", I'm just trying to be cautious here. I am not a Paul Tomkins writer, no offence to Paul but I get extremely wound up when people only ever spoon feed us positives when we all know things are sh*t.

I'd be the first one to call for his head if I genuinely thought he'd lost the plot. I do not support all of his decisions but I didn't support those made by Kenny Dalglish and other managers before and after him. That's football.

I do not believe the city is calling for him to be sacked. I believe opinion is split with a slight swing in his favour.

Finally, I know I'll be shot down here, but what about You'll Never Walk Alone? Why aren't we behind him when he needs us rather than circling above him like vultures? Seriously, eveyone's answer is a sacking but nobody know either way, pro or against, what that gamble will be?

Listen, next week I might say enough is enough but my opinion is genuine based up to and including today.

As for player power, **** em. Even if we were bottom I'd never support ANY player no matter how influential they are, if they were trying to call the ****ing shots over anyone.

Sack him by all means but I really don't believe it's the answer - YET.

I won't lose sleep if he leaves and you know what, I'd be better off because negative runs affect the site. I have to be a realist about that, I should be calling for his head because I know the site would be better with a new buzz about the place but I can't put me before someone who I think deserves more time AT THIS POINT.

I'm going to be selfish and not get involved in debates about it all. I respect all your opinions but I don't have the energy in me to argue about it

Dunk, when you said that our performances during the preseason friendlies were nothing more than "glorified training sessions", I disagreed. There was something wrong and I could see or sense it. Something was missing and it started right from pre-season. Maybe it was alonso's absence. Maybe something else. But let's face it, something's definitely not right this season.

Rafa's having an incredible run of bad luck? Ok that might be true to some extent. But when I see the team playing crap football, lack urgency in the passing, lack creativity, lack motivation to fight for the ball, and to top it off, weird line-ups and substitutions from rafa - something is seriously wrong.

We used to have the best defence for the longest time. Now we're back to Phil babb and david james' days. The players are still the same (essentially), so there must be something wrong with the instructions and system. And that's rafa's job to correct it. But we're close to mid-season but nothing has changed. In fact, teams now know that we're crap at set-pieces and crosses. It just isn't right. We're not talking about playing good footy and conceding unlucky goals. We're not even playing decent football... that's what's worrying.

If we lose to wolves - and I'm not ruling that out because I know for a fact that Phil brown can make the players run through a brick wall for him - rafa must go.

phil brown manages hull. mick mccarthy manages wolves.

Yeah, I meant Mick. And yes, Phil does a pretty decent man-managing job at Hull too.

Can you imagine Rafa managing wolves or hull? They'll probably have been flattened without any fire in the bellies.

You're right mightyreds something has been wrong since the season started- and has nothing to do with Alonso's departure. Every team goes through bad patches, but teams with players of such a high calibre as we have don't find themselves below Birmingham in the table come Christmas if there aren't massive underlying problems. To me lack of investment is completely irrelevant- look at teams like Aston Villa and Fulham? Fair enough its likely we will finish above them by the end of the season but just because "we're Liverpool" doesn't mean we can afford to be complacent. At the moment I think the main problems are lack of motivation, confidence and belief and that's for Rafa to be solving NOT anyone else. I was at the match yesterday and it was just bloody awful to see we had no answer and employed such negative tactics- to start Dossena just seems absurd?

It was worrying to hear two of the senior player's have lost confidence in Benitez- not that they should have ANY say in who manages the club but it'll just create an air of uncertainty in the dressing room. I honestly think we need change- Rafa should do the honorable thing and resign, and Dalglish installed as manager until we find the right man.

i agree with dunk. i like rafa, to me personally, i cant see how a coach can become rotten overnight.

What was it that spurred us on last season? Was it the fact that the Mnas were closing in on number 18? Was it luck?
Cant be luck to knock 4 at trafford. Now was.

Liverpool are missing something, maybe we started on teh wrong footing this season with Villa and Spurs, that just set the tone for the season. I cant say for certain.

Look at the scum, they have already lost 5 games at the middle of December? Who would have put money on that?

Could be the fact United are missing Ronanldo, could be we missing a passer in the middle, and that out defensive middle is the cause.

But overnight a coach cant be bad. And we forget all the positives rafa had.

I give him to the end of the season, cos things can change very quickly. Come the end of Feb, we could be in a completely different position as we are in now.

Babel, Voronin, Degen must be dispatched immediatly

Babel would be a superstar under a good manager.

TBH cant ever see Babel being a superstar. Thats one thing I wouldn't blame Rafa for.

He has skill in abundance, speed in abundance, he lacks first touch and match practise which are linked anyway.

Wait and see, Babel when he moves on or we get a new manager will set the league alight.

some of u are saying there ain't no guarentees that a change will improve the current situation...that's true.

but that's life, there's never any guarantees...but if you have a problem in your life (and it doesn't matter what it is) you have 2 choices. you can either sit on your a** and do nothing about it, or you can take the initiative to try and make the situation better (without any guarantees). it's the same situation for lfc now. we can sit and just watch this club sink deeper and deeper into trouble, or we can make a change and bring in a new manager with some new ideas...at least then we've tried to make something about the problem.