KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Debate this position were in now or challenge for 4th

On this forum it's still pretty clear there's a divide to what is a successful season getting a cup + reaching another final or getting 4th and champions league.

It's clear from the start of the season the plan was get 4th and try to win a cup.

But looking at the form of the players bought and those already hear plus injuries during the season, if we had of been knocked out of both cups in the first few rounds would we have got 4th?

I'm sure if we had of been knocked out of both cups early we'd have a lot more points and be a lot more highier in the table but honestly we'd still have no chance for 4th.

we'd have gotten more points at:
Fulham (a) loss
Stoke (h) draw
Qpr (a) loss
Wigan (h) loss
Villa (h) draw
WBA (h) loss
Fulham (h) loss

In the majority of those games we've rested players for the cups or had the majority of players burnt out from playing too many games with little rest.

That's maybe 13-14 extra points so we'd still be 3-5 points off 4th. In truth the team/squad hasnt been good enough due to form/suspensions/injuries/ and players not playing well.

So the bottom line is would you want to challenge for 4th and not get 4th by maybe 1-3 points and finish 5th and be extremely optimistic of a title challenge for next season and minimum Champ league the season after next but no cups and be happy with Dalglish as manager.

Or would you have the carling cup and the possibility of the fa cup but fail in the league and not be optimism for next season and be unsure of Kenny as manager.

I think it's fairly obvious which option is the best

There is no guarantee we could of gotten more points had we sacrificed the two cup competitions. We have been poor in the league throughout even before the cup competitions started. Also there were times when the cup games had at least a month in between so there was a lot of time to forget about the cups and focus on the league but we still didn't manage to rack up the needed points. I would much rather win the trophies then fail to qualify and not win anything at the end but from next season on, I think our main goal should be to get back into the champions league and this summer's transfers are absolutely vital because if they prove to be successful then we could be back in the big time, if not, we could have another season of pain and misery.

I agree with snakeye you cannot assume we would have got more points if we were not in the cups. Surely though any top club worth its salt should be able to compete in the domestic cups and challenge for the champions league. Or maybe we are not worth our salt anymore and we now operate on lower expectations. Certainly the Dalglish media campaign of the last month or two is trying to dumb expectations down. League position not important since when Kenny ?

Hard to say, but is our involvement in the cups the reason we won 5 of 18 games at home...?

Why does it have to be the one or the other?
we're a club of sufficient stature that a good league campaign PLUS a good cup run needs to happen.

Because simply the squad isnt good enough for challenging in cups and league as it's shown by our poor league form

theres certainly nothing wrong with challenging for trophies and gaining some silverware. its what the history of this club has been built on. i think for us to win a double this year it would be a huge achievement considering how long we've gone without it.

having said that our league form since christmas has been abysmal. there are certainly some issues that need addressing in the summer and our inability to finish teams off should be the main one... putting the ball in the back of the net.

i think daglish deserves another chance to make this team his own and at least be allowed another season to see if he can improve the league form. i think he will have learnt from his mistakes and the clubs owners will help steer us in the right direction in terms of transfers.

the most annoying thing is we've defended well and dominated nearly every game where we've dropped points... its unbelievable along with the amount of times we've hit the post and our poor crucial penalty misses.

dominating the play is at least some sort of positive we can take from this campaign with the obvious good cup runs. but i think it's clear that we need more players of suarez's ability if we're gonna break into the top four. the only other one we have is gerrard and he's slowly deteriorating with age. we need some big players to help this team progress. given our style i think we could really use someone with pace and trickery to beat players down the wing along with the obvious goal hanging natural finisher

Where'd i leave my salmon shirt?

We could have more points if hendo wasnt on the wing most of the seaon

i think winning trophies is very good for these players. winning is an experience so you only know how to do it after doing it. however it is clear that top 4 is more important to the club, money for one thing, been able to sign better players therefore building a better squad that could be capable of winning trophies and getting top 4. it's a bit like the chicken and the egg. because look at arsenal they have a better team than us but they have no idea how to win trophies. personally im a just in favour of top 4 because the latter stages of the CL are the best games in football IMO.