KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum CRUYFF

I'M TIRED

Not sure if you're serious, but I'll take the bait. Barcelona's version of pass-and-move has its roots in Ajax's total football, which pre-dates the Liverpool's version by several years. Not to mention the fact that it evolved from a completely separate lineage. Ajax's style was developed by Vic Buckingham. Buckingham's ideas were partially derived from another Englishman, Jack Reynolds, who incorporated ideas of free movement among players after watching River Plate's La Maquina team, which was notable for the inter-changing of positions among its five forwards (five forwards, those were the days!). Buckingham basically found his muse in Cruyff, and the two refined the concept of total football together, until Buckingham was replaced by Rinus Michels, who really took it to the next level. What most people don't know is that Buckingham arrived at Barcelona before Cruyff, in 1970, and it was he that first sowed the seeds of total football there. Then Cruyff came the next year, and then Michels a couple years after that. So Barcelona's pass-and-move traces its roots to Argentina in the 1940s; as far as I know, Liverpool's pass and move didn't develop until Shankly took over. And Shankly's ideas seem to have been independently-derived - he played that way because it was a bit of a reflection of his socialist upbringing. Whereas total football was a bit of an amalgamation of several different concepts from different sources.

that's the way to explain total football

great post.

There must be some truth to it with all the media commenting on it. I can not see this happening and kenny staying on as manager though, two very prowerfull men, one the king of LFC and one the master of the modern game. If Cruyff does come in he could Actully be a Paisley like move by the club. Bob was one of the best spotters of "young potential talent" and more importantly was not afraid to play them

For this reason I think we would also move on kenny for someone like pep ( dreaming) or more realistically luis Enrique the Roma couch. Luis played for Cruyff at barca plus worked there under pep taking over the youths when pep moved up to the first team. It's clear the FSG want the academy to start paying off and Liverpool are finding it hard to do so. Remember we won the youth cup twice a few years back and only Jay spearing has come through from that team. That's a very bad return and with spurs sniffing around sterling now we are running the risk of losing our best young player at this moment. If this happens it would be a Massive set back for the club. Selling the likes of Owen on is one thing, but losing a player before he gets into the first team like ours is a whole different ball game. It would show that the structure is going backwards and not bridging the gap it was set up to do

still can't see it happening to be honest, he wont come

Man is a legend heard all the good stuff he done with barca etc etc. BUT!! I can just see problems with him and manager.. Im thinking fireworks, because he's been there done that Cruyff is a bit of a loose cannon. But the intention is there and definatley right way of thinking from owners.

i read somewhere that Shankly established P&M after an encounter with Ajax, Liverpool lost the game by a big margin, and Shankly was impressed by the style of Ajax, so he started the P&M, but the training for it was indpendantly established.

so the origins are the same

Cruyff will only be good for Liverpool on the field. He wil revolutionize the way we play football again. His antics and idiosyncacies should be the ones to watch as he does not seem to get along with anyone.

Cant wait to see who he brings to the academy.

don't get your hopes up because he is not coming.

Haha! Great post mate!

I actually read on this forum about a year ago, that Barcelona's style of play originated from LFC. Can't remember who wrote it, but I never checked the facts properly!

Anyway. Now I have made some digging myself, and I think you are correct about why Shankley brought P&M to Liverpool.

As far as I have been able to dig, the P&M style of play was honed by Ajax coach Rinus Michels. After retiring from playing, Cruyff followed in the footsteps of his mentor Rinus Michels, coaching a young Ajax side to victory in the European Cup Winners' Cup in 1987.

It was during this period as manager that Cruyff was able to implement his favoured team formation — three mobile defenders; plus one more covering space - becoming, in effect, a defensive midfielder, two 'controlling' midfielders with responsibilities to feed the attack-minded players, one second striker, two touchline-hugging wingers and one versatile centre forward. So successful was this system that Ajax won the Champions League in 1995 playing Cruyff's system - a tribute to Cruyff's legacy as Ajax coach.

Known as a player's coach with deep convictions with regard to his philosophy of the game, he is considered a visionary and his presence at Barcelona was said to have changed many things and this was the beginning of what is known as the "Dutch influence" at Barcelona.The style of play Cruyff introduced at Barcelona came to be known as tiki-taka and was successfully adopted by the Euro 2008 and 2010 World Cup winning Spanish national team.