KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum KD's Handling of Andy Carroll

I agree with the one dimensional stuff, but guys, he wasn't this one dimensional at Newcastle. That's the big point your forgetting.

It wasn't just cross, cross, cross at Newcastle. They used him in a number of ways.

Cast your mind back to the time we played against Newcastle at St James' and he played for them. We had Torres at the time, he looked one dimensional and hopeless for us in that game. There was a total gulf in work rate, effort and output between Carroll and Torres that day.

I remember thinking, if only we had him up front for us.

I ain't having "its all Carrolls fault, he's a donkey" lads!

Kenny is systematically destroying the player. Sorry, but it's true.

Obviously everything plays a part, the player, the manager, the team, of course.

In this instance, I personally think it is more to do with the management, than the player.

Of course Carroll can do better, but so can Kenny in regards to managing the player.

No one else at the club, who I can think of, gets the blame for "everything" as much as Carroll, that is totally not fair or necessarily right! A lot of players have done more wrong than Carroll, even in the Newcastle game.

This is how you know that the transfer fee, effects peoples judgement, regardless of performance.

No one bemoans Luis Suarez transfer fee, but hang on, what has he been doing of recent, to be worth £25million?

If Carroll was a £5million player, I doubt this sort of focus would be on the player, even if the manager was treating him like sh*t!

However, we can moan as much as we like about he cost £35million, there is nothing we can do about it.

But the manager is treating him like sh*t.....what really is the difference?

I've noticed people saying "We should have signed Papa Cisse, "only" £10mill"....these are the same people who say that Carroll was unproven in the Premier League and we should never have signed him?



Yessssssssssssssssssss.

Wasn't sure which one of your posts to quote, there was a lot of 'myth' ( a polite way of putting it) that you like to pretend is fact that I wanted to dispel, but I can't be bothered to tackle every point and most of them are fairly obvious so I'm sure people saw right through them anyway.

All of your posts reek of desperation to find some reason for Carroll's poor form other than that actually he's a pretty limited player. He displayed nothing at newcastle to suggest he was technically gifted enough to play the 'pass and move football' that everyone seems to agree is Kenny's primary method for Liverpool to play. You are right he seemed to show much more work rate and desire more often than not although he has demonstrated for us on occasion and has resulted in better performances though still woefully below someone we should have been even considering as our no. 9.

As I said, you have offered up reems of and reems of possible explanations for Carroll's ridiculously poor performances, trying to divert blame from his door. Which whilst could be the (or some part of the) reason behind them, still come from nothing more than hypothetical conjecture. Equally valid is the possibility, Carroll is one of the many players that are a big fish in a small pond, but can't cut it under pressure/when he isn't the main man/when he asked to do more than one type of role/he has to be smarter to fit in with more skillful and intelligent players/etc etc etc.

On an earlier post you wrote we aren't playing completely to his strengths like we supposedly did with Torres. Torres was far smarter a player than Carroll and took up better positions and made better runs for one, but more importantly Carroll is nowhere near good enough to build a team hoping to get into the top 4 around. If he wants to fit, he has to compliment, not the other other way around. He doesn't yet (possibly ever) have anywhere near the ability or brains to be so arrogantly deserving of everything put on a plate for him as he makes no movement across the first defender or into the box which he does in nearly every game.

A blatant lie is the same people criticizing the Carroll purchase are the people who bemoan our lack of buying cisse, there are just as many people who fall into one half of that category but not the other. Also it fails to take account of the fact that these individuals might see attributes in cisse that would compliment our game plan more than they saw in Carroll, and therefore would need less time to be convinced of worth. So basicly, what you wrote there was a nothing point.

Lastly, Carroll has had plenty of minutes, and enough of a run on several occasions to have 'turned it around' by now. That cannot be a pathetic excuse that gets made for him. For what it's worth I think he should start simply because we do better with 2 up front than without, but just because we paid a lot of money for him, or you think you see something in him, does not mean he should get as much game time as it takes for him to finally score more than 3 goals in a season, nor does it make it okay to swear at your manager in front of national TV, even if you don't wanna get subbed off. If Rooney did it you'd be sticking the knife in United fans about it, or any player at another club for that matter.

Whatever the deal is on Andy Carroll I can't see it. He has never looked a premiership footballer to me. If there is one thing that made Liverpool a laughing stock it was to pay £35m for him. Its something I will never understand.

You shouldn't of quoted any post, because you've only cherry picked your way through bits and bobs that are relevant to you, to appear "I know more than you"

"Myth that I like to pretend is fact?"

What are you on?

It's just my opinion, like you have yours.

IT IS fact however, that Carroll has showed better than this. Has he not? That is my main argument with people who blindly say he has never "done it"

Yes, it must all be myth

1. I was giving reasons as to why I think Carroll isn't performing to the ability we've seen at Newcastle and in a couple of games for us. PERSONALLY (It is MY opinion, just like you have yours ) I think, it is more down to management on this occasion. If I believed it was all down to the player, I'd say so! But I don't, so what do you want me to say? Of course, looking for viable explanations is "desperate" as you put it. I'm sure no player in the history of football has ever dropped in form because of the reasons I gave. For instance, look at Torres at Chelsea under Villas Boas, now look at him now, with more "freedom" and "faith".

2. I don't think I compared Torres and Carroll like for like either, so i don't know where you created that from. I was pointing at a game, against us where Carroll showed the sort of form, that we bought him in the first place for. It just so happened Torres played for us that day and lacked effort and fight. Which was totally the opposite to his opposite number on the day.

3. I've spoke to many people who bemoan "Commolli failing in not signing someone like Cisse" "Carroll was over-priced! Look what Cisse has done for Newcastle for £10mill" How is that a lie? If I have seen and heard people say this? The same people who will say "Carroll was unproven in the league, after a good half-a-season....we should never had signed him!" are the same people who would take Cisse instead of Carroll for £10mill. It just so happens, Papa Cisse hadn't played a game of Premier League football before signing for Newcastle, and has really only played half a season himself.

So which is it?

Good effort anyway, I await to see you cherry pick more posts in the future.