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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,422
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,422 |
The Rafa argument is actually a relatively simple one. Is Rafa a better manager tactically than Dalglish? If think we all know the answer here is "Yes". Is Rafa a better man manager than Dalglish? I think we all know the answer here is "No".
So which worked better for Liverpool? Considering that we're 8th and on our worst run since 1953 (worse even than Hodgson) I'd say that right now our tactical problems are far more significant than issues with man management. Which is not to say there are no man management issues, considering the mysterious absence of Bellamy, and the fact that this squad seems to have no fight left in it. Remember also that Rafa never allowed Liverpool to slip below 9th on the table no matter how poorly we played or how many injuries we had or how bad our morale was or how little the squad chose to play for him. Even at our absolute worst under Rafa we did not have relegation form. Kenny is flirting with that line - a failure to beat Newcastle today could be massive.
The "toxic" element of Rafa's reign is hard to ignore, but it's also easy to remember that it only came about because of the owners we had. FSG are not H&G. They are not sentimental (apparently), and if they re-hire Rafa it will be because they think he's the best manager available (and better than the incumbent) and not because the fans want him back.
So for me the side of Rafa that most of the fans hate never needs to be seen as long as FSG want what he wants, and they've said they want success (which is not what H&G wanted) and have delivered on their promises (which is not what Moratti at Inter did, and oh look he's just sacked yet another manager).
But there will be problems.
1. Can Rafa work with Commolli? He understands the manager of football role well from his time in Spain and Italy (only with Liverpool did he have more freedom), but it's really whether he trusts Commolli more than Purslow or Parry (which if we're honest shouldn't be hard to do). I don't see major issues here, but I believe this is the most critical element to any potential re-appointment.
2. Can Rafa work with Gerrard? I think Carragher has understood his days are numbered, but I don't think he's mellowed towards Rafa as a result. Gerrard had a lot of questions about Rafa, notably about Alonso and that Birmingham game when Torres was subbed off [which Rafa claims was concern for the player having discovered his medical staff lied to him about the player's condition - and is apparently one of the reasons why the staff was sacked to a man (and remember that Torres blamed Rafa for not managing his injury prior to the World Cup)]. Regardless of who was right, if there is any friction between captain and manager it could work out as well for Liverpool as Terry/Lampard/Drogba have worked out for Chelsea under AVB. The next manager will strip Gerrard of the captaincy at some point - and here's hoping he goes quietly...
If these two points can be satisfied, I can see no reason why re-appointing our most successful manager in the last two decades should be bad for Liverpool. But I have serious doubts about these two points, unless Rafa really has changed over the intervening period (something his wife wanted, so even she knew the job was getting to him). top post once again
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,678
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,678 |
Anyone think he will be appointed again. Do you think he would come even though comolli is here interfering?
I loved rafa and found it interesting reading about players he wanted but wasn't backed. Also I wonder how he would do with the current owners
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
I hope Rafa comes back purely so you would shut up about Rafa's time being over and people needing to move on. Why don't you move on over and let us have our discussion about Rafa the almighty...
Sign Reus
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,215
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,215 |
I hope Rafa comes back purely so you would shut up about Rafa's time being over and people needing to move on. Why don't you move on over and let us have our discussion about Rafa the almighty... LOL!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,215
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,215 |
KP, as much as you hate rafa, there are as many others who would love to have him back, me included.
And we're not wearing rose tinted glasses.
We want him back because at least we'll be playing football with proper tactical nous and intent. Not 11 lads chasing the ball around the park.
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craney91
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craney91
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Has the title of this thread been changed?  To be brutally honest, I was willing to give Kenny till the end of the season and hopefully finish on a high note winning the FA Cup. At this moment in time, if the players continue to play like this, he won't be finishing on a high note and Everton will more than likely capitalize on this. I'm basing my thoughts on what I've seen today and over the last few weeks. Today was basically a culmination of things that have been building up, today was the scrambled egg. Kenny looked lost today on the touchline and didn't have a clue how to repair the damage, I honestly feel that they are giving up on the players, as the players have given up on them. We are in a deadlock! We need some life back into the team, JANUARY GONE WAS CRUCIAL! We NEEDED to bring something in to freshen the squad and keep us ticking, we knew then that if we didn't we faced the risk of burning out well before the season finished. We didn't make any signings in January and none of what has resulted, surprises me. The players look tired, unfit, down and totally average. B*llocks to what Commolli said about doing nothing in January! It's not about whether or not we couldn't do anything because we "didn't want to pay to much", WE F*CKING NEEDED TO! .....and now we have this predicament. If Kenny can turn this around and get these players back to how they was in the first few months he took over, it will be a miracle. I'm here to be proved wrong.
Last edited by craney91; 01/04/12 10:49 PM.
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craney91
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craney91
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double post
Last edited by craney91; 01/04/12 10:48 PM.
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craney91
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craney91
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We seriously need some tactical nous and organization back.
AND MOST OF ALL
ORDER!
Our players are all over the place, not knowing whether to come or go, it's just one big mess at the moment, attacking and defending.
I know FOR A FACT Rafa would give us a bit more solidness!
We are like water at the moment guys!
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craney91
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craney91
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Prophet take the blinders of mate! I'm trying my best to hold onto Kenny myself, but the FACT of the matter is, it isn't working. We must look at it, at how it is. We didn't really understand when we had Rafa, just how lucky we was. We was playing against some of the best players in the world and doing a job on em. Prepared, organized, water-tight, high tempo. The best I've ever seen Liverpool play was under Benitez against Real Madrid in the Champions League, YES MADRID, not Wigan, or Swansea, or Stoke, or Newcastle. REAL MADRID. I'm not going to disagree, Rafa had a few bad times also and at times it was robotic. But I honestly 100% believe, with all my heart, this break that Rafa has had away from management, is just what he needed. The same mistakes he made first time, will be at a minimal second time around. With the backing of the owners, respect and support I have no doubt we can be up there again. Listen to the man Prophet, he ain't the same Rafa! His wife will even tell you that! 
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craney91
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craney91
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You're failing to understand something very basic. People who don't want Rafa back aren't necessarily saying we should keep Kenny... if Kenny is deemed a failure then they want to move to pastures new. A fresh, new, vital manager with new ideas and impetus, as well as player connections, is what is needed next year. If Dalglish is sacked for failing in the league... then we can't go back to Rafa for the same reason. It's as simple as that... Isn't that Rafa though? Can't he be pastures new after this break? Fresh, new, vital manager with new ideas and impetus, as well as player connections? Can't he be that second time around? I really don't think it would be as "samey" as you think, this break has and will do him good, because he can sit back and look at it all with a clear picture. Like I said before, I'm not getting the same Rafa now, as I did. The same voice, yes of course, but ideas and tactics not at all. Rafa could come back and adopt a different philosophy, bring in different players. What has he learned from watching other successful teams on this break? We just don't know, therefore we can't burn Rafa with the same as Kenny. We can't judge a "second coming" of Rafa, because of Kenny's second coming. Rafa still has a legacy at Liverpool believe it or not, the youth setup and academy. Yes, that was Mr. Benitez that got it to the level it is at, not Kenny....Kenny is just giving these youngsters the chance. Rafa built the foundations AND brought over Rodolpho Borrell from Barcelona to coach the kids, who was vitally important in many of Barcelona's young players growth, including Lionel Messi. For me, Rafa has unfinished business, whether you like it or not. Whether it be 1 week, 2 weeks, at the end of the season, 5 years, or 10 years. He will be back! The sooner the better for me though! Or else we'll risk the same sort of thing we're seeing now under Dalglish's second go after such a long gap.
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