KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Does Rafa know something we don't?

How do you know we can have him for free? He has no association or history with Liverpool and may "selfishly" ask through his agent for a fee.

I agree about the hunger to prove Chelsea, it's players, it's fans and it's owners wrong, but also the media, who obviously worked hand in hand with the club, to remove the manager quickly.

This isn't just some ordinary manager, this is a rare manager, who is young and well ahead of his years. He speaks English already (and could do before joining Chelsea) better than some English people and won a treble with Porto instantly.

I agree that Villas Boas, taking into account everything, is a very very very good option to be our next manager and is also my choice, especially for the long term.

I feel we have to get in as quick as possible though, or else some other top club in Europe will snap him up, treat him with respect and love and end up being some other clubs Alex Ferguson.



Believe me Prophet, I know damn well about this "herd mentality" you don't have to tell me bud. This isn't a Rafa love-fest official fan-club "swelling" for a return, this is people who have actually thought about it and looked at the now. What is Rafa like now, what can he do for us now etc etc.

Personally I feel the appointment of Dalglish was out of sentiment, if not forced by the fans. If the owners DIDN'T appoint Kenny, the new owners risked already being on the wrong side of the fans. It was win-win for the owners, and they played their hand perfectly. They jolly well knew, what they was doing.

Rafa wouldn't be appointed out of sentiment, it would be out of what the owners thinks best for the club to take us genuinely forward. Of course, some fans would have some sentiment towards Rafa (mostly the one's who love the man) there is no doubting that.

But for me, it wouldn't be done out of sentiment, but out of credibility and just how capable the manager is. Add to the fact the availability and easiness of bringing Rafa in, there is just no way he'd say no to Liverpool especially when he still calls it, and lives at home, with his family happily in the Wirrall and the city.

......and even perhaps Rafa thinks he still has a point to prove, just like Villas Boas.

I think both managers are very strong options and could be lethal and SUCCESSFUL.

Herd Mentality?

Listen, just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean that they're wrong. We're currently 8th in the league, haven't won in weeks, and are playing awful football. We were never like this under Rafa, not even in his final season were we this bad.

You should be able to understand the reason why people want Rafa, and it's a credit to Rafa as to why people are so disheartened at the moment. Because they got used to the life that Rafa brought to the club ie CL football, top 4 finishes and being well above most of the rest, even in Europe.

Even I can't agree with some of that mate, we played worse football than this, at numerous times under Rafa. It turned robotic, 60 minute+ subs, everything was just so predictable and dry. Rafa couldn't see anything, because he was so stuck in his ways in day to day management.

However, I don't think it'd be carbon-copy for Rafa second time though! I've said it before plenty of times and I'll say it again, this break away from management has and will do him the world of good!

We've played some good football under Kenny, but our goals haven't showed it! I honestly feel even though Agger and Skrtel have been solid for most of the time, we've conceded some stupid, complacent, goals (most of them the same) that could have been prevented, if the defence concentrated more when needed.

Don't get me wrong, we saw silly goals under Rafa to, but not with the sort of consistency as this. AND WE HAD ZONAL MARKING BACK THEN!

Our football is "better" under Kenny, but the defence (which was always notably consistent under Benitez) has taken a back step for me, most of our defenders have been given license to go forward and that has meant defensively, we've become very complacent, unorganized and slow.

The amount of times we've committed the same mistakes and conceded the same sort of goals this season, leaving Pepe exposed, is very annoying! The players just look around as if they don't know what the f*cks happened!

It might of been Robitic at points, but we were competing, and that was the point I was trying to get across (me and words are not friends). We were competing in the top competitions, and often playing really well. You can't tell me that when we came second that our football was robotic, it was unstoppable and if it wasn't for the owners not being able to invest, if we had gone out and brought the 1 or 2 players we needed after that, it all could have been a different story.

Also when Rafa was around, I'd be excited about the players he brought in a lot of the time. What was brought in over summer was not exciting.

I'm on the fence about Rafa. But I get why people would want him back, because he is a good option, and we want those CL nights back and out most recent memory of them are under him. But there are other good options out there too. I think we should keep away from the Prems managers though and look outside.

You have to look at some of the opposition and players we played against under Rafa, in Europe and in the league.

We shut out some of the best players and teams, consistently.

.....and now we can't even keep the likes of Gary Caldwell under wraps!!!

Exactly! So maybe it wasn't so bad playing robotic at times. We lost 3-2 to QPR while being 2nil up. Would that of happened under Rafa? Not as consistantly as it has lately.

I personally like the look of Manuel Pellegrini, the guy has done well where ever he's been.

Wouldn't AVB be more likely to head to Inter Milan instead of Liverpool?

Competing for what Pops? The title? Once. Top 4? Yes when we were one of the only 4 teams that could ever possibly realisticly get near it (now there are 6/7 teams). I love Rafa, but all this we were competing bullsh!t is grating on me now. We didn't compete apart from once. He made plenty of mistakes and did a lot of good as well. Leave the past where it is. Can we PLEASE look forward to something new?! Why are some of you so desperate to carry on our tradition of being 'stuck in the past'.

Competing in the CL too mate, don't forget about that. Btw I said that I would prefere new blood i.e. Manuel Pellegrini. I like Rafa, and believe he could do the Job, but there are also others that could.

Who would I like to see? I got some ideas that are ahead of Rafa, but would I be gutted if he came back? Probably not.

The Rafa argument is actually a relatively simple one. Is Rafa a better manager tactically than Dalglish? If think we all know the answer here is "Yes". Is Rafa a better man manager than Dalglish? I think we all know the answer here is "No".

So which worked better for Liverpool? Considering that we're 8th and on our worst run since 1953 (worse even than Hodgson) I'd say that right now our tactical problems are far more significant than issues with man management. Which is not to say there are no man management issues, considering the mysterious absence of Bellamy, and the fact that this squad seems to have no fight left in it. Remember also that Rafa never allowed Liverpool to slip below 9th on the table no matter how poorly we played or how many injuries we had or how bad our morale was or how little the squad chose to play for him. Even at our absolute worst under Rafa we did not have relegation form. Kenny is flirting with that line - a failure to beat Newcastle today could be massive.

The "toxic" element of Rafa's reign is hard to ignore, but it's also easy to remember that it only came about because of the owners we had. FSG are not H&G. They are not sentimental (apparently), and if they re-hire Rafa it will be because they think he's the best manager available (and better than the incumbent) and not because the fans want him back.

So for me the side of Rafa that most of the fans hate never needs to be seen as long as FSG want what he wants, and they've said they want success (which is not what H&G wanted) and have delivered on their promises (which is not what Moratti at Inter did, and oh look he's just sacked yet another manager).

But there will be problems.
1. Can Rafa work with Commolli? He understands the manager of football role well from his time in Spain and Italy (only with Liverpool did he have more freedom), but it's really whether he trusts Commolli more than Purslow or Parry (which if we're honest shouldn't be hard to do). I don't see major issues here, but I believe this is the most critical element to any potential re-appointment.
2. Can Rafa work with Gerrard? I think Carragher has understood his days are numbered, but I don't think he's mellowed towards Rafa as a result. Gerrard had a lot of questions about Rafa, notably about Alonso and that Birmingham game when Torres was subbed off [which Rafa claims was concern for the player having discovered his medical staff lied to him about the player's condition - and is apparently one of the reasons why the staff was sacked to a man (and remember that Torres blamed Rafa for not managing his injury prior to the World Cup)]. Regardless of who was right, if there is any friction between captain and manager it could work out as well for Liverpool as Terry/Lampard/Drogba have worked out for Chelsea under AVB. The next manager will strip Gerrard of the captaincy at some point - and here's hoping he goes quietly...

If these two points can be satisfied, I can see no reason why re-appointing our most successful manager in the last two decades should be bad for Liverpool. But I have serious doubts about these two points, unless Rafa really has changed over the intervening period (something his wife wanted, so even she knew the job was getting to him).