KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Does Rafa know something we don't?

Are you sure about this? Absolutely sure? If you can find some proof it would almost certainly put an end to the bring rafa back campaign, on the grounds of high improbability.

Was rafa's brief to win the league though? A lot of people are stating that as if it were a fact but it sounds more like it was made up by someone trying to bring him down to kenny's level of failure.....

That would make our players as disgraceful and unprofessional as Chelsea's. If that's the case then I'd be happy to see them bugger off, as they clearly don't love the club as much as we thought. Of course, we need to be sure that there is any truth behind this gossip that they didn't want to play for their manager.....

well, to be fair every managers job is to win the league. that's what we want and expect, but i don't classify rafa as a failure.

I'm sure grown men can shake hands and get on with it for the good of the club?

Oh right, that's it! Let's delay bringing a better manager back all because Mr. Captain Fantastic, with his brand new spanking 5 year deal on £100,000+, says no no no!

Somehow I think it's Mr Gerrard that needs to grow up and remember just what Rafa did for him as a player!

He made him a better player, pushed him to the max! Made him captain (or was that Houllier?), Won things for Steven and the club, EVEN convinced Steven to stay with Liverpool! On top of all that, Rafa still regards Gerrard as the best player he has seen and managed! Somehow I don't think the problem lies with Rafa on this one!

So Steven would be quite happy sat in the Europa League every year all the way until the end of his "illustrious" career...(still with no Premier League medal in sight) under this management? Surely he'd have more faith in the man that got us as close as we've EVER BEEN IN 20 YEARS?

Carra can whine all he likes! He's coming to the end of his career AND HE must remember what Rafa did for him also! By moving him in the center, instead of at right back, even Carra admits just how much that helped him as a player! Rafa persisted with Carra and let's be honest, footballing wise, he's always been limited! Passion, heart, commitment, second to none! But he must remember, Rafa could have quite easily brought in a better player at center back years ago! No Carra got the benefit of the doubt and cost us loads of times! BUT HE STILL REMAINED INTEGRAL to the side for being a local lad!

So the two power-hoggers at the club threw a paddy because Torres got substituted? (in a game he played poorly throughout in!) Oh yes, and while we're on the subject of Fernando, what happened to Fernando in the end? Yes that's right, he screwed us all AND the people that idolized him and thought he was "one of us" and "different" Hmmmmm

The same two power-hoggers that had apparently voiced their discontent with the persistence of young learning Lucas?

Who turned out to be right in the end? Rafa!

There is no stumbling block with the players for Rafa to come back. They either like it or f*cking lump it!!!!...and as Rafa says, he's not meant to be their friends!

If they don't want Rafa back, then why don't they start knuckling down for Dalglish?

For me, the players don't have a say at all in this! The manager is chosen for the right reasons, not what they specifically want, or else we'd turn into Chelsea mark-2!

If Mr. Gerrard and Mr. Carragher are so extraordinarily happy under Dalglish, why aren't they showing it?

Are they more than happy with our declining position? No Champions League again for another year?!?

The question isn't about the players, it's about the owners on this one. What do they want? Are they as serious as we think? How interested are they in winning?

Will they be willing to knock down the structure they have started to build? Remember, Kenny isn't alone here! He's brought in his own back room staff. Steve Clarke, Kevin Keen and Damien Commolli is also there (although not Kenny's choice)

Do the owners want to knock that down and risk starting "all over again"?

Would Rafa want to come back and work with Steve Clarke, Kevin Kean and Damien Commolli? Or would he want to bring his own team in?

If the owners want whats best, they will give Rafa everything he needs to be able to be successful, no excuses this time!

If Rafa get's the same exact backing that they are currently giving Kenny and he ISN'T successful, then I give up!....and I'll eat my shoes!

Oh yes, and I'm sure they wouldn't have to pay Rafa a penny to become our manager again either!

from what i can remember it was mainly sg and carra who were the voice of dissent.carra is done as first choice a brilliant servant to lfc but he has to be moved on it's his time.as for sg heres where i get crucified.i said before kd came back that he had to sign a replacement for sg and let him be his mentor.sg has probably got 3 years the way he is going.he has carried injuries throughout his career which he has never been able to shake properly.he loves us first yet still plays for england where he has been used as cannon fodder by a succession of england managers and returns injured for a few monthseg pointless friendly against france.i think sg might have been caught up in the politics of dumb and dumber maybe he was being used to brew up further dissent against rafa and what better man than the man with the most respect at the club.i don't think sg would be a problem but if he is NOBODY is bigger than the club.what if he goes to euros and gets injured no summer training not fit for start of season.sorry didn't want to make this an anti stevie rant just wanted to offer my opinion

i actually think rafa is the man for the job.any other manager coming in wants to build a successful club and it could be any club for them ,the difference with rafa is he doesn't want to build a successful club...he wants to build a successful liverpool.sometimes we fans throw our history etc around and not as often as this season to try and defend ourselves against the outside world but rafa is the same as us.i bet if you stabbed him he would bleed red.he would be supported any plans he had under dumb and dumber were screwed because they had no money for him and it was made out to be his fault.with proper backing we could fulfill our dream and rafas to make liverpool successful again

Ok, let's assume Rafa is at the helm (tenuous at best, but let's go with it). Where would Rafa play Gerrard with our current squad, assuming everyone is fit? For me that's the key to a successful return.

The players won't see what Rafa sees (at least not within the same time frame). Rafa saw that Carragher was past it, but Carragher disagreed. 18 months later it's very clear to all that he is past it, which suggests he's been past it for some time. Which makes Rafa's assessment correct even though there was squad dissent as a result of his (accurate) call. What if Rafa thinks Gerrard will only be of any use as RM in a 4-4-2? Gerrard apparently refuses to play there, believing he's a CM. What if Rafa were (once again) correct, but is forced to work against his captain? Would he give the armband to Lucas (a player Gerrard disliked, though he may have changed his opinion now)?

What about Bellamy, who Rafa has already sold once before?

Because if one takes a look at Rafa's previous spell (ignoring the press and the poor transfers under H&G's sell-to-buy policy) he was a lot more correct about things than not. He made Carragher an excellent CB. He made Reina the keeper he was (prior to Hodgson breaking him). He made Gerrard the player he was by first playing him on the right, and then playing him in the hole (neither of which is where Gerrard wants to play). He made Torres the striker he was, improving his ability to head the ball. He made Mascherano, Alonso, Arbeloa, Lucas... the list goes on. He made us a feared attacking unit by putting the pieces in the right place, and a strong defensive unit by using zonal marking. Questions can be asked about his use of Kuyt and Babel, who were strikers turned wide men that ultimately had not enough impact, but that may have been a problem with the transfer market and being forced to do what he could. He was right about the "facts". He was right about getting Dalglish, Borrel et al for the Academy. He was wrong about not healing the rifts with Pako and Alonso, but nobody's perfect, yeah? (It also takes 2 to tango)

I feel that Rafa can't come back while players he managed are in the squad, with the possible exception of Reina (who would probably welcome a return to "correct" keeper training). If he comes back early it will surely spell the end of their careers, and we all saw what happened at Chelsea as a result of just such change.

Well said, if the players cannot accept the decision of LFC's management, no matter which manager is in question, be it Rafa or Hodgson or Ancelloti or whoever, they should be shipped out. One thing that Kenny has repeated over and over again, is that no individual is greater than the club.

Whilst Gerrad is our captain and an LFC legend, if he starts with certain antics against any manager, he should be moved on. It would be a real shame, but it's how it should be. We cannot have the players dictating who is in charge. At the end of the day, the players are employees, well paid ones at that, and if they ar not perforimng and fullfilling their duties they too should face the axe just as we would if we weren't performing at work.

Carheex, your posts are getting better through time, i have had many disagreements with you but your last couple of posts are making a lot of sense.

I could well be mistaken, and this is just a supposition, but I feel Kuyt would be happy to have Rafa back, as would Agger and Reina. Lucas would surely be ecstatic. So, to me, the players who might be unhappy are Carra and Gerrard, I can't really think of anyone else, perhaps Bellers.

Carra is past his prime and if he is unhappy he should be given a fond farewell, Bellers might be unhappy about it but I believe circumstances have changed. I feel rafa probably sold him due to his bust up with Riise and such behaviour. Let's not forget Rafa got them to bond fter that incident.

That leads us to the question of Gerrard. Now I know I am gonna get crucified for this but I feel that gerrard has not offered us all that much this season. He was out due to injury for long periods of time, but when he has played, I don't think he has been thatc rucial. Against Evrton he was amazing but again, one shining performance evry 5 games is something we can get from other players too. Having said that, and considering that Stevie has also matured and seen the results of Rafa's work and the foundations he put in place, seeing Lucas develop into a key player, seeing how much stronger we were under Rafa, perhaps Gerrard would be prepared to admit that maybe he was wrong for disrespecting Rafa, or perhaps, they could both agree they had a part to play in their fallout and bury the hatchett. I believe that just like Kenny, Stevie really wants what is best for LFC and I think he knows, Rafa was our best manager in the past 20 years.

I think that this team could work well under Rafa and i am positive we would be a stronger force with him at the helm. If I only think back to how many times we came from behind to win matches whilst Rafa was in charge, it shows that he obviously knew how to motivate his troops at half time and that the players saw something in their manager that made them believe they could win the league under his stewardship. This does not change overnight.