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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
Of course nobody denies it's better than Hodgson, but that's a meaningless comparison. Is it better than under Rafa? No. Unless you compared it to Rafa's very worst season in charge. Even then, with the money spent, Kenny would still come out worse. We're not aiming to be slightly better than Hodgson, we're aiming to be better than what Rafa achieved.
No team ever gains success by sacking manager's year after year. Fine. But they do gain success by sacking failing managers and appointing a better one.
Again with the ferguson crap. Read this properly, because I'm tired of saying it.
Ferguson appointed at United in November, they were 2nd from bottom (yes bottom) in the table. They finished 11th. Clear progress.
2nd season, Ferguson spent a fair bit of money as you wrote above. The team finished 2nd!! Clear f'ing progress. A jump of 9 league positions! Fincredible progress.
They THEN experienced some disappointment in the next year, and finished midtable, which is when his job started to become under threat. But lets be clear, in the space of two years, and some money spent, Ferguson had taken a team from 21st in the table, to 2nd in the table. He hadn't taken a team which always finishes top 7, and got them to finish 6th, and then spent a huge amount of money and got them to finish 7th (or worse).
As for his pedigree coming into that job, Ferguson had done miracles in scottish football. Dalglish hadn't managed in years, and many considered him out of touch.
Arsene Wenger and Mourinho achieved even more success very soon after starting and clear progress. We need a manager like this, not one that we have people desperately trying to defend his lack of progress, by re-imagining history. If we're gonna start doing mish-mashes of truths and piecing them together to suit whatever argument we're trying to put forward, then we can say that from when Kenny took over last season, we were one of the highest teams in the league (pointswise). I know we lost the last 2 matches, which probably brought us down, but up until that point, we were 2nd or 3rd in a points table made up from the day Kenny took charge. When he took over we were in the lower half of the table. I could compare that you your analogy of Ferguson finishing 2nd after the team being previously in the lower half, and then make the comparison of the following season being a letdown after money being spent. However, I'm not interested in doing so, because for one, every case is different, and two, it p*sses me right off when people stat distorting truths and picking and choosing what "facts" to mention, and which ones to conveniently omit from the case they're trying to make. Another thing that p*sses me off this this "£110m" b*llocks that's being droned on about in every second post at the moment. It seems to be flavour of the week. Okay, so a few people have clearly learned the trick of addition. Now if they could just learn a new trick called 'subtraction' and subtract the figure that's been recouped from the figure he spent, that would be just lovely - not to mention a bit more honest. I'm sick of these childish arguments. Some people on here are like spoiled brats. Add a thirst for blood into the mix and you've got one hell of a repulsive being. If you have an opinion - great. If you try to get your opinion across clearly - even better. But please, can these pathetic arguments where people give one sided half-truths ever f*cking stop! And before I get accused, I'm aiming that comment at people on both sides of this imaginary fence that has been put up, for god f*cking knows WHAT reason!!
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
Dalglish didn't complain about this.
I am saying it's obvious he would have played those two for the full game had they been fit.
Would this not have made a difference, in your opinion?
To the season? no. We'll finish where we deserve to be. On one particular game, perhaps, but it's pretty much irrelevant. We've been poor all season, except for the occasional good performance in teh cup or a top side. If Carragher isn't good enough (and he isn't anymore) then the manager should have known this and signed another defender, and shouldn't have played him so many games thi syear. The manager HAS played him, even when he was appalling, so I don't have nay sympathy for Kenny on this. Absolute b*llocks. Our finishing has been p*sspoor all season - that's a solid fact. Our play aside from this has not been. Aerial delivery into the box has been well below par, but even at that, the finishing from the decent delivery has been poor. I can still list on one hand (okay, maybe I may possibly need 1 or 2 more fingers max.) the amount of games this season where we have been genuinely second best. As soon as we lose a game, suddenly people's memories get wiped/distorted, and we turn into this team of players who cannot play football at all. I'd like to remind some that this game in question that we're lost, we actually played really good stuff in. The defensive collapse in the last 13 minutes was an absolute disgrace and inexcusable, but that doesn't change the fact that we played some really nice football before that.
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 84
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 84 |
I would rather have 110m in the bank and a proper person spending that money. This statement is utterly disrepectful, you show great passion for which i share but please consider the acheivements of our manager before taling about him with such disregard. he will land us the premier league, i am certain of it ...and the award for most deluded fan of al time, goes to............"kop4life!!" If anything i have said is technically incorrect please correct me. I love my club and will be somewhat optimistic because i believe what the manager sYs
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,955
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,955 |
I will listen, only if your answer contains wisdom
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 84
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 84 |
your have gone off on one, big time
I will dumb it down for you.
I would rather have a different manager spending the money.
ok I must admit being slightly older means i have many a fond memory of the acheivements of our manager. I will defend him as i believe in his ability but must also appreciate the opinions of the many fans who are desperate for the club to return to its former glories. i have been referred to as deluded, slightly off kilter by people on here. Maybe i am but i am just trying to be positive and truly believe things are getting better.
Last edited by Kop4Life; 24/03/12 02:35 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
Dalglish didn't complain about this.
I am saying it's obvious he would have played those two for the full game had they been fit.
Would this not have made a difference, in your opinion?
To the season? no. We'll finish where we deserve to be. On one particular game, perhaps, but it's pretty much irrelevant. We've been poor all season, except for the occasional good performance in teh cup or a top side. If Carragher isn't good enough (and he isn't anymore) then the manager should have known this and signed another defender, and shouldn't have played him so many games thi syear. The manager HAS played him, even when he was appalling, so I don't have nay sympathy for Kenny on this. Absolute b*llocks. Our finishing has been p*sspoor all season - that's a solid fact. Our play aside from this has not been. Aerial delivery into the box has been well below par, but even at that, the finishing from the decent delivery has been poor. I can still list on one hand (okay, maybe I may possibly need 1 or 2 more fingers max.) the amount of games this season where we have been genuinely second best. As soon as we lose a game, suddenly people's memories get wiped/distorted, and we turn into this team of players who cannot play football at all. I'd like to remind some that this game in question that we're lost, we actually played really good stuff in. The defensive collapse in the last 13 minutes was an absolute disgrace and inexcusable, but that doesn't change the fact that we played some really nice football before that. Again we disagree on this point. Good football will yield good results. Pretty passing and fancy skills is not the same in my book. There was a team called the Harlem Globetrotters. They used to do tricks in their basketball games, very entertaining, very skilful, yet they weren't even fit to the lace the boots of the Chicago Bulls or any other NBA team. Entertaining, but not good basketball. We're not playing good football, and we haven't. We've been defending well, but even that fails us when Carra is on the pitch. That's why we're 7th, that's why we have a terribly low number of goals, and you're welcome to your opinion that the play is better. But there's zero supporting evidence of that. Even the QPR game, in which I agree for most of it we were the better side. We still weren't very good in the first half, and I didn't feel we looked likely to score. It took a wonder strike for us to score. And we were the better team...but so what? We have a top 6 squad, and we play 19 other teams. We should have the better team, and therefore outplay the opposition in at the vast majority of games. Add in the fact that we have mostly played 4-5-1 and it should be clear that with 5 midfielders we're going to see a lot of the ball and should control the midfield. You can't really be pleased that we've marginally outplayed essentially a championship side and lost the game. Most of the time, we're marginally outplaying the other side, not dominating. That's another reason why so many draws. Listen man, I'm not disagreeing with you on everything - you don't need to convince me that we shouldn't have been playing 4-5-1. I would have started Carroll up front and left Adam on the bench where he belongs. We'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes 'good football'. You think that because we're not consistently winning games, that we're not playing good football. If dominate a match and go on to lose via a sucker punch (maybe the Arsenal game as an example) and if we play sh*te in another match and lose (Bolton or Sunderland matches) then there's no difference to you in the football we play? Come on. Things are not that black and white. Playing good football shows a degree of promise in the players/team. I've said it til I'm blue in the face - our finishing this season has been atrocious. I've certainly never experienced seeing a season where it's been anywhere near as bad. I think we've played good football, but have fallen down in that area mainly. When people look back at Roy Evans's Liverpool team they say they played great exciting football - they scored a lot of goals - they leaked a lot too - which was where they fell down. We don't leak goals, but we don't score enough. If we put a proper goalscorer in that team, I'm sure we'd be at least a couple of places higher in the table.
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
Have you EVER contributed anything to this forum, aside from posting one-liners (if even that) to boost your post count and sh*t-stirring with b*tchy little comments? If so, I'm yet to see it. You remind me of the guy in the back in this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIzKeRtbrtc
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,046
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,046 |
ignore it & it will go away/change nick
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 172 |
Was AVB sacking bad timing?
If you say no than I completely disagree with you.
My opinion, is that the bare minimum he should get sacked if he doesnt finish top 4 (which we all know he wont)
Note: at the start of the season I would have kept him, if we finished 5 or 6 as long as we were fighting for the top 4 position, but that is not happening, so now he MUST finish top 4 if I was the decision maker otherwise I'd fire him
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
Was AVB sacking bad timing?
If you say no than I completely disagree with you.
My opinion, is that the bare minimum he should get sacked if he doesnt finish top 4 (which we all know he wont)
Note: at the start of the season I would have kept him, if we finished 5 or 6 as long as we were fighting for the top 4 position, but that is not happening, so now he MUST finish top 4 if I was the decision maker otherwise I'd fire him It wasn't bad timing, no. There are many very clear differences though. 1. Chelsea were in a much more obvious bad state - there was civil war going on in the dressing room between players backing the manager and players that didn't want to play for him, and there were disputes being made public between the manager and certain players. Something had to give. 2. Chelsea still had a CL spot to play for and are/were very much in the mix. We have NO CHANCE. Massive difference there, and there is little at stake. 3. Chelsea are still in the Champions League - a competition that the owner badly covets. Yes, we're still in the FA Cup, but the two are not on the same scale.
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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