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Joined: Mar 2011
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Joined: Mar 2011
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 I'm more of a piccolo man myself.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
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you gotta ask urself if some of these posters have ever played football! I think you have a much better understanding of the game when you've actually played it at some level yourself. I don't think you can fully understand the game unless you play it or have played it. I see some people saying they see no promise in Hendo or that Spearing and/or Lucas offer nothing or very little to the team. When I see that I immediately think to myself that these people really don't get the game. Football isn't just about what you do on the ball, but it's also about what you do off the ball. If I watch a game and see any of the above players put in a great shift including making runs off the ball to drag opponents out of position to create space for teammates, closing down opposition players in the midfield areas, constantly making themselves available for passes by movement into positions (whether they receive the ball or not), patient but constructive passing, and the sort of niggly little tackling and badgering of opponents that is known as one of the dirty jobs. Well if I see this, I come on and praise those players, and I get slated by people who said they did nothing and offer nothing just because they didn't score or get an assist. Myself and anyone else who can actually identify those traits are actually the "deluded idiots" for seeing that. I play a lot of football, never professional though, wasn't good enough, but I have to say the idea that the level you play football at is related to having good football knowledge is utter nonsense. Tell that to Arrigo Sacchi, that you have more knowledge than him because he never played professionally. There are lots of managers who played some football, but never really reached any high level and went on to be great managers. Doesn't everyone in europe play some football at some stage. Hendo has some promise, but right now he's not good enough and is dragging us down a bit, and he's also not worth the money we paid. He's young though, and there's potential. Spearing is not like Lucas. Sorry, I was one of the very few backing Lucas from the start, and I didn't have much company around here, but he's a far superior player to Spearing and ALWAYS was. Lucas has been one of the teams best players for the past 2 and a bit years. He's only just turned 25, which means he was one of the team's best players at ages 22-25. Jay Spearing is already 23, and he's poor. Very poor. If he was brazilian he'd have been run out of the club by fans by now. As Carheex points out, you could replace him with any midfielder who is willing to work hard even from championship level. Does he do a job, and hassle a bit, yes. But doesn't even do that to a great standard. I did see it with Lucas, I can give Henderson some time, but Spearing is just backup, and not very good backup. you're not deluded for seeing and praising good defensive work, but as someone else said here, Spearing was man of the match in a game where Stevie G scored 3 and Suarez assisted 2 and both were playing superbly, then yeah, I think that is deluded. Sorry Rafarendum, but you really need to read what I've said in my last posts. Maybe not so much the one about CarheeX on the flute, but the other one! Clarification of the one previous to that.
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,046
1st Team Squad
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,046 |
Emp also praised charlie adam like he was new messiah
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
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Posts: 7,552 |
Fine you can say the criticism of some players is over the top, but equally the defence of local players is also over the top isn't it? I was slated for criticising Carra at the start of the season and saying he should be dropped. Emp even told me the defence would be hopeless without him. He's actually a liability for us. So is Spearing. They get ridiculous man of the match awards from locals. Even Stevie G has received more praise than he deserves at times. He was excellent against Everton, but there have been quite a few games when he's gone missing and been quiet. Also Martin Kelly. I think he's a top top player, and will get better. But this season and last season, he's not as good as Johnson. He's getting closer and closer, but still not quite there (Thundyr will be on now to disagree).
It's clear to me that locals and players from the academy don't get criticised enough. And i see the same applying to certain managers, because Kenny is perceived to be part of Liverpool, and Sounness wasn't so bad, he had a hard job to rebuild the team, and Evans played great football, but Benitez was terrible and ruined the club and Houllier never got us close. Come on. Isn't it obvious. Agreed. It works both ways, as it should. Bias based on such irrelevant things should be taken out of the equation when assessing a player. Whether you're local or not is one of those things, and pricetag is another one.
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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thundyr
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thundyr
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Also Martin Kelly. I think he's a top top player, and will get better. But this season and last season, he's not as good as Johnson. He's getting closer and closer, but still not quite there (Thundyr will be on now to disagree) Haha. Actually I won't disagree because Johnson is a genuine threat going forward, and I've never said he wasn't. Liverpool is short of goals, and he can provide those. What I have said is that if Kelly improves his crossing then I'd easily be able to pick him ahead of Johnson whether we need an attacking or defensive fullback. The reason I say that is because Kelly's crossing is generally woeful, but he gets involved in the attack enough to at least create some pressure on the right, and really can't be faulted for that (considering Enrique isn't much better at providing a clinical final ball from the other flank but does create opportunities just by being there and being able to get back to defend if the attack breaks down). Defensively Kelly wins hands down, I'm afraid, and I'm sure you know that. Were Johnson fit I'd definitely pick him for the Stoke game, btw - they will park the bus, and Kelly's defensive skills will be largely unnecessary, whereas Johnson could be the difference in unlocking their defence. But if we're giving so much time to develop Henderson as an RM when he's only good in the middle, then I can't understand why Kelly doesn't get more game time (not necessarily the full 90) when Johnson is fit and potentially better suited to RM than Hendo or perhaps even Kuyt. Henderson is a player for the future undoubtedly, but Kelly ticks a lot more boxes for me and doesn't need to be played out of position just to get him on the pitch. Unless Kenny has tried Kelly and Johnson on the right in training and discovered it has failed (or the latter objects to being played in a different position for fear of losing his place in the England squad - which seems unlikely now that Richards botched his last attempt for the 3 Lions), then I can't see why it hasn't been tried in a game. Our remaining league games are largely meaningless now, and I'm sure Johnson will be fighting fit before long. I think Kelly is a fantastic player - I won't hide there - and I can see him overtaking Johnson in a year or two, both at club and country level. But perhaps not yet.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
[quote=Snakeye][quote=Growler][quote=Snakeye] Yet with all of those advantages he still gives aboslutely nothing - I am convinced that those who think he has potential just 'hope' he has potential because 'he's young (ish)' and IF he comes good it will mean kenny made a decent albeit massively overpriced signing.
You could replace with him with any central midfielder in the premiership, or championship (possible even league 1) without any noticeable difference.
...No question about it, £20m down the drain! Once again utter nonsense...If you haven't seen anything from Hendo when he plays down the middle it means you are either blind or don't want to see anything from him and I am afraid it's the 2nd option... "once again", you're wrong. I agree that Henderson IS slightly better in the middle but that is purely a reflection of how bad he is on the right. He's still useless wherever he plays and brngs nothing to the table. I have played football all my life and have even managed, albeit at an amateur level. However, I'm not so arrogant that I think therefore my opinion is more valid as someone who has played less or hasn't played at all - that would make me a proper muppet. This isn't about wrong or right but about the fact that you say Henderson brings nothing to the team, which is something that anyone with an impartial view can see. Whether he is worth 20 million is another question altogether, but to say the guy doesn't have some good attributes that he rings to the team is UTTER NONSENSE...sorry but that is a Rafa fact right there. I never questioned your footballing history but it is pretty obvious to me why you didn't move up in the world of management. P.S. Football manager games do not count as management at an amateur level just in case you were refering to that. I wouldn't be surprised.
Sign Reus
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,365
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,365 |
you gotta ask urself if some of these posters have ever played football! I think you have a much better understanding of the game when you've actually played it at some level yourself. I don't think you can fully understand the game unless you play it or have played it. I see some people saying they see no promise in Hendo or that Spearing and/or Lucas offer nothing or very little to the team. When I see that I immediately think to myself that these people really don't get the game. Football isn't just about what you do on the ball, but it's also about what you do off the ball. If I watch a game and see any of the above players put in a great shift including making runs off the ball to drag opponents out of position to create space for teammates, closing down opposition players in the midfield areas, constantly making themselves available for passes by movement into positions (whether they receive the ball or not), patient but constructive passing, and the sort of niggly little tackling and badgering of opponents that is known as one of the dirty jobs. Well if I see this, I come on and praise those players, and I get slated by people who said they did nothing and offer nothing just because they didn't score or get an assist. Myself and anyone else who can actually identify those traits are actually the "deluded idiots" for seeing that. I play a lot of football, never professional though, wasn't good enough, but I have to say the idea that the level you play football at is related to having good football knowledge is utter nonsense. Tell that to Arrigo Sacchi, that you have more knowledge than him because he never played professionally. There are lots of managers who played some football, but never really reached any high level and went on to be great managers. Doesn't everyone in europe play some football at some stage. Hendo has some promise, but right now he's not good enough and is dragging us down a bit, and he's also not worth the money we paid. He's young though, and there's potential. Spearing is not like Lucas. Sorry, I was one of the very few backing Lucas from the start, and I didn't have much company around here, but he's a far superior player to Spearing and ALWAYS was. Lucas has been one of the teams best players for the past 2 and a bit years. He's only just turned 25, which means he was one of the team's best players at ages 22-25. Jay Spearing is already 23, and he's poor. Very poor. If he was brazilian he'd have been run out of the club by fans by now. As Carheex points out, you could replace him with any midfielder who is willing to work hard even from championship level. Does he do a job, and hassle a bit, yes. But doesn't even do that to a great standard. I did see it with Lucas, I can give Henderson some time, but Spearing is just backup, and not very good backup. you're not deluded for seeing and praising good defensive work, but as someone else said here, Spearing was man of the match in a game where Stevie G scored 3 and Suarez assisted 2 and both were playing superbly, then yeah, I think that is deluded. that was me and actually came from Aldo on radio city when we were coming back from the match. We as a group all thought Spearing had a very good game and recently has had a few good games, just like Hendo who was brilliant against Arsenal. I like you was also a fan of Lucas very early on, then again i thought Robbie Keane would be perfect for us - we all see things in different ways. I coach kids and have done for several years, the most talented at 8/9 quite often drift and improve slowly by 12/13. Reason generally seems to be they master a trick or two but fail to work on their weak points. Whereas the less talented player works harder to improve then suddenly they are a better player. This trusts me happens alot. For example Carra never blessed with natural ability constantly works his socks off to improve and has forged a very succesful career as every hurdle he has worked hard to overcome. Torres blessed with tons of ability is currently lost as never before has he worked really hard - all to easy in the past. Chances are he will fade away unless he changes his attitude. Hendo has bundles of natural talent but in my view struggles sometimes to express himself, against Everton he was terribly nervous but then takes part in the first goal with a neat lay off to Suarez and then the second goal with a great defense splitting pass. Whilst he never really hides(babel) he often moves the ball 'safely' far too often. Spearing has improved dramatically since his introduction although I do agree that we maybe reaching his limit. Sadly because of his stature he may not beable to fully compete in that midfield arena.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
[quote=Snakeye][quote=Growler][quote=Snakeye] Yet with all of those advantages he still gives aboslutely nothing - I am convinced that those who think he has potential just 'hope' he has potential because 'he's young (ish)' and IF he comes good it will mean kenny made a decent albeit massively overpriced signing.
You could replace with him with any central midfielder in the premiership, or championship (possible even league 1) without any noticeable difference.
...No question about it, £20m down the drain! Once again utter nonsense...If you haven't seen anything from Hendo when he plays down the middle it means you are either blind or don't want to see anything from him and I am afraid it's the 2nd option... "once again", you're wrong. I agree that Henderson IS slightly better in the middle but that is purely a reflection of how bad he is on the right. He's still useless wherever he plays and brngs nothing to the table. I have played football all my life and have even managed, albeit at an amateur level. However, I'm not so arrogant that I think therefore my opinion is more valid as someone who has played less or hasn't played at all - that would make me a proper muppet. This isn't about wrong or right but about the fact that you say Henderson brings nothing to the team, which is something that anyone with an impartial view can see. Whether he is worth 20 million is another question altogether, but to say the guy doesn't have some good attributes that he rings to the team is UTTER NONSENSE...sorry but that is a Rafa fact right there. I never questioned your footballing history but it is pretty obvious to me why you didn't move up in the world of management. P.S. Football manager games do not count as management at an amateur level just in case you were refering to that. I wouldn't be surprised. No it is NOT - it is a matter of opinion. Don't be so arrogant. What about the likes of wenger, ferguson, mancini, redknapp etc...none of them rated henderson enough to sign him....are they also 'clueless' at management and know nothing about football in your bizarre opinion?
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
No it is NOT - it is a matter of opinion. Don't be so arrogant.
What about the likes of wenger, ferguson, mancini, redknapp etc...none of them rated henderson enough to sign him....are they also 'clueless' at management and know nothing about football in your bizarre opinion? I must say, I have a little chuckle to myself everytime the most arrogant person on this forum accuses someone else of being arrogant..
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128 |
Too right Bar, Mr Know All is an expert on everything apparently
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