KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Liverpool Everton ratings

Once again utter nonsense...If you haven't seen anything from Hendo when he plays down the middle it means you are either blind or don't want to see anything from him and I am afraid it's the 2nd option...

you gotta ask urself if some of these posters have ever played football!

I think you have a much better understanding of the game when you've actually played it at some level yourself. I don't think you can fully understand the game unless you play it or have played it.

I see some people saying they see no promise in Hendo or that Spearing and/or Lucas offer nothing or very little to the team. When I see that I immediately think to myself that these people really don't get the game. Football isn't just about what you do on the ball, but it's also about what you do off the ball.

If I watch a game and see any of the above players put in a great shift including making runs off the ball to drag opponents out of position to create space for teammates, closing down opposition players in the midfield areas, constantly making themselves available for passes by movement into positions (whether they receive the ball or not), patient but constructive passing, and the sort of niggly little tackling and badgering of opponents that is known as one of the dirty jobs. Well if I see this, I come on and praise those players, and I get slated by people who said they did nothing and offer nothing just because they didn't score or get an assist. Myself and anyone else who can actually identify those traits are actually the "deluded idiots" for seeing that.

I think most people can appreciate there is more to football than scoring a goal of the season contender every month, maybe they just disagree with you about how much the shift they put in was constructive to the team performance. Maybe your right about most people I don't know but it feels very patronizing to suggest if I don't agree with your view on what spearing added to the the team on any given day then its because 'I dont understand football'.

Somewhat seperate to that, my views on some of the players in question:
I think spearing is a half decent squad player, made better as he came through the youth so cost nothing. I don't think he would get on the bench for the sides above us because his forward passing is very poor in most games.

Henderson made a couple of really decent passes, but on the whole detracted from attacks and did not do as well as other players we could get for 20 million. Remember he's not competing against nothing, if he does a good pass fantastic, but could another player in that position make 3?

Carroll is certainly getting about more, winning more in the air. Positionally he is still poor, and hasn't got the legs to draw defenders away quickly enough. He is the kind of player you have in your squad, he certainly hasn't shown the talent to be liverpool's no.9 in any of his games, even ones where people have seen improvement. Think what a top striker could do with suarez and gerrard. Again Carroll isn't competing with himself and the poor season he has had so far, he is competing with what we could have in that position.

Firstly, I'm not saying that if you don't play football, then you don't understand the game. Not at all, I don't want to come across as patronising in the slightest, because it wasn't meant in that context. I'm sure we could name some professional footballers who don't seem to "get" the game! Some fans "get it", and some fans don't. I was just saying that I think playing it gives you a better chance of understanding the sides to the game that maybe isn't so glaringly obvious. It's like music - you can be a casual lover of music and just simply like the sound of songs. If you play instruments or are even more interested in the intricacies of certain instruments/harmonies used in songs, then you'll probably have a better understanding of music on a more detailed level.

I also want to point out that I'm not blowing the trumpet of the likes of Hendo and Spearing, nor am I trying to make them out to be something they're not. I'm aware of their limitations, and I'm WELL aware that neither of them will probably ever be world beaters. When you defend players/managers from unfair, extremist over the top criticism on here, you tend to get accused of being deluded and thinking that these players/managers are better than they are, when it's not the case. Some people just find it hard to see the grey areas.

"once again", you're wrong. I agree that Henderson IS slightly better in the middle but that is purely a reflection of how bad he is on the right. He's still useless wherever he plays and brngs nothing to the table.

I have played football all my life and have even managed, albeit at an amateur level. However, I'm not so arrogant that I think therefore my opinion is more valid as someone who has played less or hasn't played at all - that would make me a proper muppet.

Pepe Reina - drums
Steven Gerrard - Lead Guitar
Jordan Henderson - the triangle

You should really work harder on veiling your insults better.

And CarheeX on the flute, of course.

It was aimed at no one in particular, but if the cap fits.....