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Joined: Oct 2009
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Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
CareX is right partially. You can't have one without the other. For example if all we do is win the Carling Cup or even FA cup that cannot be sucess for a club of Liverpool'stature. But the cups do have a value it adds to our trophy count and may lead to greater things and act as a springboard. But the target must be to play at the highest level so its not a choice between the domestic cups and champions league it has to be both.
That is so obvious I cannot see how anyone could disagree.
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
CareX is right partially. You can't have one without the other. For example if all we do is win the Carling Cup or even FA cup that cannot be sucess for a club of Liverpool'stature. But the cups do have a value it adds to our trophy count and may lead to greater things and act as a springboard. But the target must be to play at the highest level so its not a choice between the domestic cups and champions league it has to be both.
That is so obvious I cannot see how anyone could disagree. Stanley, that is literally what I have been saying all season. If people take me standing up for the significance of the cup as a sign that I don't understand the significance of CL football, then that's their fault/misconception, not mine.
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
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My final counter to all this is that the number of domestic cups won is only really relevant for rival fans to boast about, if that's their 'thing'.
They offer no significant financial reward and don't help to raise the clubs' profile with regards to attracting players or money. And unfortunately, it IS all about money these days whether we like it or not.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
Then can't we all talk about sumatt else this has been going on for months I am not blaming you Bari I address this to all.
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jun 2010
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My final counter to all this is that the number of domestic cups won is only really relevant for rival fans to boast about, if that's their 'thing'.
They offer no significant financial reward and don't help to raise the clubs' profile with regards to attracting players or money. And unfortunately, it IS all about money these days whether we like it or not. Football is like a game of snakes and ladders and the back in 2009 we hit the king of all snakes which tooks us right back down the board in all aspects(club,team, style,reputation). Under Dalglish we have made steady progress moving one square at a time avoiding snakes but had the occasional 'miss a turn' thrown at us. Now for the first time we have a ladder and it is the Carling cup, admittedly it is not a big ladder but nevertheless it is a leap up. We should take it with both hands and it may well just sgnify the start of our return to the top. Nobody is suggesting it is the ceiling it is just a ladder, Too many of you are looking at the top and forget that to get there we must make small steps. Winning trophies is about as good as you can get to make up the distance. Arsenal have won nothing for 7 seasons and yet have comfortably qualified for the champs league each season, their fans moan, attendances are down as they are now stuck in the middle of neither being good enough for the big ones(EPL and CL) nor committed enough to the smaller ones(CC and FA). They are falling away, every club needs success to grow and success is measured by trophies not 4th place finishes.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
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Using your arsenal example, I will ask you a question: Would you rather we qualified for the CL every year or missed out and won a few trophies instead?( I think we know my answer and I'm 110% confident that FSG are of the same viewpoint as me...)
Success 'can' be measured by trophies, as long as they are highly regarded trophies like the premier league trophy, the champions league trophy,.....and to a lesser extent the fa cup. The club owners on the other hand are interested in what will make us the money in order to grow, and the carling cup doesn't fall into that category. I don;t see how winning the league cup will help us to qualify for the champions league though, which is where we need to be, so a ladder it ain't.
There's an interview on teamtalk today where kenny discusses the devaluation of the carling cup and how most teams aren't interested in it very much (something many posters on this forum deny of course - maybe they'll change their minds if it's coming from the mouth of mr dalglish?)..
Excerpt:
"I don't think it (the competition) has regained the credibility from years gone by," said Dalglish.
"I think we have treated it with respect but the teams that have treated it with respect are few and far between.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
True Aresnal fans are not happy but I would like to bet none would swop with our position right now.
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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thundyr
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thundyr
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I don't understand all this talk of xxx Cup OR 4th. It is said as though being in a cup final PREVENTS one reaching a CL qualification spot, which is complete bolx and those spouting such trash know it. We all "get it" that the CL is more important than either domestic cup, but that doesn't imply that domestic cups are unimportant. Do you think it is unimportant to the players and coaching staff that we had to beat Stoke and Chelsea away, and beat the league leaders over two legs just to reach Wembley? If you think squad morale is unimportant to our league aspirations, just shoot yourself now and save us the headaches, please.
Furthermore, a cup run does improve the club's finances, not just in extra gate receipts but also in prize money. I'm sorry, but those of you who can't grasp this must be dim-witted in the extreme. Yes, some cups are worth more than others, but to suggest none are worth winning is to misunderstand the basic tenets of competition - not just football competition. We're in it to win stuff - if it's there, it's worth winning. If you don't want to win anything, why do you actually support this club?
Oh, wait, you're only interested in the big prize. You know what Shanks said about that? 'If you can't support us we we lose or draw, don't support us when we win'. There's another bloke just like you by the way - he owns Chelsea FC. He doesn't care about the league title, even! You should support his club, because you're made for each other. If you think is attitude towards football is sub-standard, I suggest you take a close look at yours.
I think some fans have forgotten we had no European competition this season. THAT fact alone made the Carling and FA cups important competitions to this club. Perhaps the former was not high on our radar while our fixture list was cluttered with CL group stage matches, but a sense of perspective really is in order.
Part of a club's "aura" is the sense that it regularly wins trophies, and Liverpool are still the most successful English club in this regard. Perhaps that's propped up by our number of League Cup wins, but isn't it ironic how we've ALSO won more European Cups than anyone, and are still the only English clubs to beat either Real Madrid or Barcelona (having done both, the former more than once) in their back yard. Winning is a habit, and you have to start somewhere. So why not the Carling Cup?
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Jan 2011
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I don't understand all this talk of xxx Cup OR 4th. It is said as though being in a cup final PREVENTS one reaching a CL qualification spot, which is complete bolx and those spouting such trash know it. We all "get it" that the CL is more important than either domestic cup, but that doesn't imply that domestic cups are unimportant. Do you think it is unimportant to the players and coaching staff that we had to beat Stoke and Chelsea away, and beat the league leaders over two legs just to reach Wembley? If you think squad morale is unimportant to our league aspirations, just shoot yourself now and save us the headaches, please.
Furthermore, a cup run does improve the club's finances, not just in extra gate receipts but also in prize money. I'm sorry, but those of you who can't grasp this must be dim-witted in the extreme. Yes, some cups are worth more than others, but to suggest none are worth winning is to misunderstand the basic tenets of competition - not just football competition. We're in it to win stuff - if it's there, it's worth winning. If you don't want to win anything, why do you actually support this club?
Oh, wait, you're only interested in the big prize. You know what Shanks said about that? 'If you can't support us we we lose or draw, don't support us when we win'. There's another bloke just like you by the way - he owns Chelsea FC. He doesn't care about the league title, even! You should support his club, because you're made for each other. If you think is attitude towards football is sub-standard, I suggest you take a close look at yours.
I think some fans have forgotten we had no European competition this season. THAT fact alone made the Carling and FA cups important competitions to this club. Perhaps the former was not high on our radar while our fixture list was cluttered with CL group stage matches, but a sense of perspective really is in order.
Part of a club's "aura" is the sense that it regularly wins trophies, and Liverpool are still the most successful English club in this regard. Perhaps that's propped up by our number of League Cup wins, but isn't it ironic how we've ALSO won more European Cups than anyone, and are still the only English clubs to beat either Real Madrid or Barcelona (having done both, the former more than once) in their back yard. Winning is a habit, and you have to start somewhere. So why not the Carling Cup? I don't think anyone is arguing that the Carling Cup isn't worth winning. Of course our aim is to win everything we can. It's not that we don't care about the Carling Cup. It's just that we care about it much less than the Champions League or the league, or even the FA Cup. Abramovich is an extreme case, but the sad fact is that all trophies are not created equal. Collecting trophies is great, and I love a good cup run as much as the next person, but we have to realize that the Carling Cup is only a stepping stone on the way to bigger and better things. It would be a nice morale boost and another thing to add to the trophy cabinet. That's about it. The revenue it generates is negligible in the grand scheme of things, and it doesn't really do much to raise our profile.
YNWA
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
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Great post completely agree I cant wait for the final 
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