KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Racism, discrimination and the F.A. and Sky

Although we don't want or need discrimination of any sort in the game imo these sorts of problems should never be laid at the door of footballers who on average are probably young inexperience men who too are not/should not be responsible for setting standards of what those in power who ever they are in this country want to portray. This imo is a society problem and has to be dealt with IN society,but i don't think you can start on the football field in this world wide game as not all world societies share our view, like it or not, sadly, Just my thoughts!

i'm hesitant to define racism here as even academic literature on the area will posit that a definition is not fully agreed from scholars of the area but that i do beleive that there is consensus on the major key factors, including name calling, different treat of people based on race etc

i think i have already stated by express, directly to you, that i understand that racism is something that exist in any race/colour of people. i don't intend to clarify that to you again.

i agree with you liverbird that its not just down to footballers to be the powerbrokers of this. no question. undersanding racism is everyones responsibility. as much as we as a club have been scapegoated in this, i think it has opened up a wider debate.

i do think that racial insults (of any description) are unacceptable but i don't think that point of view is accepted though. the debate has shown that alot of people only beleive that rasicm only exists as a physical manifestation (ie kicking to [oops] of someone cos they're white/black/asian or whatever) but i disagree. this episode (irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the suarez debate) has highlighted a need for a widespread dialouge on it. i don't really think the opportunity has been fully grasped by the media or by the fa unfortunately. i think alot of pressure groups and orgs haven't really done themselves proud in this either imho.

i don't think i am overplaying racism though. i take exception to that. what i'm trying to put across is that rasicm is serious issue that isn't properly understood.

there's a great book called 'calcio' by john foot which is about the history of italian football. the author has an interst in the origins of facism. in the book he looks a how political ideology and voting patterns link to geographic locations of football teams.

all recent events have served as perfect springboards for that discussion, football, i think is the ideal vehicle in many ways for that debate.

I think if I'd been sitting on the 'other side of the fence', the well thought out reasons,arguemnets, and discussion you have have put forward over the last few weeks would have well converted me to your way of thinking by now.
Another most excellent post.

Bloody hate you you great chimp.

KP for PM I say.

Well to be honest I think those sitting on the other side of the fence can't even see our side.

Maybe it's one of those one-way-see-through-glass walls in between? We can se everything on their side but they can't see an elephant strolling by on our side?

i think your point touches upon something very intersting. plenty of articles have been written to say that depending on which part of south/latin america you come from 'negrito' has different types of meaning ranging from term of affection to a direct insult.

the way in which the FA has dealt with this puts a big spotlight on them. i do, like you, fear that there is a danger that they will treat terry more leniently because he is english. by not serving him, and everyone else, with the same rules that suarez has been dealt with, most definitely, is discrimination in a raw form. but it remains to be seen what they do as yet.

their failure to look at the meaning of 'negrito' suggests that they have failed to look at other cultures and expect foreign players to behave and talk like locals as soon as they arrive (which is unrealistic). in other words the FA expects the assimilation as opposed to integration of other cultures which is something the the UK govt is set against.

i think that the FA should be set up to deal with this, because of the sheer scale of what english football is. the reason i think this is so important is because soccer is england's biggest export. more people in the world engage in watching english football on a more regular basis than any other entity coming fom the uk. as much as the royal family may be a flagship, realistically football is more entertaining and its bigger.

the eyes of the world are on the EPL and the FA should be set up (and the govt should take it seriously) to deal with this situation definitively and not allow, through weak exercising of its power (in the suarez-evra situation), that the question of whether the FA is instituionally racist itself to warrant being questioned.

Suarez's crime was not being race conscious enough, in a society that supposedly wants no racism (ie: zero race consciousness, race matters so little no one notices).

In trying to make a statement about racism, the FA and their fans like Piara Powar and that Lord somebody or other have instead made race matter a great deal - which is exactly the opposite effect.

Exactly and that is just want the race industry want. To elimate racism would elimate these peoples careers and they don't want that.